the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

by **Yeung** on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:49 am

Yang Style Da Lu Push Hands 杨氏大捋推手

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smfwonvEQ1k

This technique requires good coordination of 8 and 5, and this is where flexibility of the lower extremity plays an important role in developing the fighting skills in Taijiquan.

by **Ron Panunto** on Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:46 am

Da Lu's are short two-person forms for exercising the four corner energies. There are many variations. I've practiced a few, but not the one shown on the video.

by **Yeung** on Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:50 am

In the last section of Fu Zhong Wen's video is Da Lu 3:58-4:32:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txospiOy_II

And that was further developed by Fu Zhen Song into his Buguaquan' two person adherent sets, it is sort of a pity that it was not further developed in Taijiquan.

by **Steve Rowe** on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:39 am

I learned 3 Da Lu forms. The first opened the arm out to the body, the second took the arm across the body and the third combined the two turning your partner 45 and then 90 degrees.

by **wayne hansen** on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:15 pm

I think the title got it right here
It is more like walking 4 hands than da lu
As with Steve I learnt several versions
In each the 4 suplimentry or corner techniques are well defined
Split,pull down ,elbow and shoulder
In this clip they are softened to where they are more like the 4 main energies
Also the cornering stepping is less defined
I find talu to be the closest to ba kua tai chi gets
Quite often I teach it as a prelude to ba kua training

by **yeniseri** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:39 am

It seems that Yang style push hands training was never even a secondary thought due to the importance of form, and more form so I am guessing the strategy was to give them form(s) if that is what they want. Just my limited view that Wu style appeared /appears to cover tuishou in a more didactic manner when compared to Chen or Yang but it also appears that teachers teach (despite the obvious contradiction of what is to be taught and to whom

) based on their environment and conduciveness to proper instruction. Just me

by **Steve James** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:04 am

It is accurate to call it "da lu push hands" because what they're doing combines both. I.e., it combines the tui shou hand and stepping methods with the da lu hand and stepping method. Imo, it eventually looks spontaneous and not simply a rehearsed pattern.

by **Yeung** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:38 am

It is difficult when being push from a perpendicular position to one's stance and the various encounters to it should be very interesting.

by **wayne hansen** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Steve James wrote:It is accurate to call it "da lu push hands" because what they're doing combines both. I.e., it combines the tui shou hand and stepping methods with the da lu hand and stepping method. Imo, it eventually looks spontaneous and not simply a rehearsed pattern.

The difference in the two is what you are practicing
The two stepping patterns taugh before Ta lu
Involve 3/3 stepping and 3/2 stepping
One partner taking 3 steps forward while the other takes 3 back or 3/2
These exercises can either be straight back and forward or either person change angle at any time
But they use the 4 primary energies
What differs in Ta lu is the use of the 4 suplimentry energies and the adjustment from being lead off line
Both can be done simultaneously but you should see both or what is the purpose
As with San shou
Every time one person does not move in a pure and combat efficient manner the other should break from the set capitalise on his partners error and attack
Return to either pushing or Ta lu when the time is right resume the set
Doing this you might not get past move one on either side
But this is the point of training
As for pushing in the different styles I have never seen anything in Wu /Chen or any other that I have not learnt in yang
Some schools have either not learnt the full set or dropped them because they feel it can be container in 1 or 2 exercises

by **Steve James** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:35 pm

There are way more than 3 stepping patterns; it depends on the style. But, how about the steps used in Fair Lady at Shuttles? Does your (anyone's) system incorporate that stepping pattern?

Anyway, my point was that, no matter which system, tui shou and da lu should eventually be interchangeable in practice. I don't mean the san shou form, or any form for that matter. I don't think the aim is just to learn a lot of patterns, but to make the student adaptable.

by **wayne hansen** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:43 pm

That is exactly what the basic Ta lu patten is fair lady
All these drills in the entire yang system are to make the student adaptable
That is why they were put there in the first place

by **Steve James** on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:24 pm

That is exactly what the basic Ta lu patten is fair lady

I suppose that depends on how you practice da lu. Fair Lady indeed goes to the four corners, but it uses open/close stepping to turn. Maybe in your style, that's the way it's done. Here's an example.