Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:25 am

Sounds like a case of 走火入魔...

I've met a master that said that Taijiquan is the best and you should only use internal power. He studied Shaolinquan, amongst other things, and could fight well before learning Taiji. Literally none of his students could fight their way out of a wet paper bag and this master constantly frowns at them in digust. He looks down on everyone and everything else. He hasn't sparred in decades. It's beneath him now.

My master said that perhaps one in a thousand of his students might achieve some skill in Gongfu learning things his way. As time goes on he is becoming ever more esoteric, pulling away from reality, cultivating the perfect image he has of himself. I'm happy to not count myself amongst his students..
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby dacheng on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:33 am

Patrick wrote:And here it is written that he is now only teaching ti bao zhuang?


Of course not.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Patrick on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:53 am

Thank you! Again it sounds highly unlikely, one simply needs to look at Yao Zongxun´s teaching who was his successor or even some of Wang´s other long time students.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby suckinlhbf on Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:03 am

A long term student of Wang Xiangzhai said Wang's art had two main parts - 功力 (gongli) and 假借. He said Yao ZongXun had the 功力 part.

The master mentioned by MaartenSFS seems to be the replica of Wang XiangZhai. Wang learnt XingYi, met, and exchanged with many masters then ended up with ZZ. He taught ZZ for fighting, then for health in his later year in the park. After the park training, some of his students would follow him to his home and train for fighting.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:42 am

Wangs understanding and teaching is very much for those with solid and fundamental foundation in TCMA.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby HaraldH on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:29 am

Well, what Wang writes seems in line with what you read elsewhere: there are some underlying principles governing the act of fighting such as gravity, body mechanics, perception, psychology and maybe even the greatest secrets of the universe. Once you have aligned yourself with these boundary conditions you become more efficient. So I do not see this is impractical, just difficult to realize.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Bao on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:39 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:Wangs understanding and teaching is very much for those with solid and fundamental foundation in TCMA.


I've looked at most what is seen in Yiquan as foundation practice, to build a strong foundation.
If you already have a strong foundation in TCMA, it means that you have already have had your share of standing practice. It makes no sense that you should let people go through foundations practice a second time if they already have built one.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Trick on Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:32 am

Bao wrote:
Wanderingdragon wrote:Wangs understanding and teaching is very much for those with solid and fundamental foundation in TCMA.


I've looked at most what is seen in Yiquan as foundation practice, to build a strong foundation.
If you already have a strong foundation in TCMA, it means that you have already have had your share of standing practice. It makes no sense that you should let people go through foundations practice a second time if they already have built one.

if i remember right you say you have done quite a lot of XYQ training, then you should know that standing practice is not just standing there. All XYQ practice is very much about moving....but you know that already?
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Bao on Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:06 am

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:
Wanderingdragon wrote:Wangs understanding and teaching is very much for those with solid and fundamental foundation in TCMA.


I've looked at most what is seen in Yiquan as foundation practice, to build a strong foundation.
If you already have a strong foundation in TCMA, it means that you have already have had your share of standing practice. It makes no sense that you should let people go through foundations practice a second time if they already have built one.

if i remember right you say you have done quite a lot of XYQ training, then you should know that standing practice is not just standing there. All XYQ practice is very much about moving....but you know that already?


Yes I know. Standing is just a name, many ways to practice this stuff. I practiced for about 15 years, but always on a very rudimentary level. I claim no sort of skill and have never done so. But I've always appreciate the basic practice and jibengong very much. The only thing I keep on to is the Santishi.
Last edited by Bao on Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:45 am

As was stated in old master Wangs observation in the op, one must understand the duality in effort to transcend it, such is the essence of force, and such is the reality of standing practice.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby luniac on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:03 am

dacheng wrote:In 2002 Li Tao and Li Quanyou, disciples of Wang Xiangzhai's daughter Wang Yufang (Li Quanyou learned also from Li Yongzong, Li Zhiliang and Wang Xuanjie) published a collection of Wang Xiangzhai's works, which included texts which were not published previously or in other collections, which until then were kept, and finally revealed by Wang Yufang.

According to them Wang wrote those texts in 1959 in Tianjin.

Here you can read them online:

意拳拳谱与八法训练之法则
http://www.360doc.com/content/11/0919/0 ... 5551.shtml

意拳断手述要与意拳实用之方法
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_91e7cb7b0102wzo2.html


nice!
i hope i see some new stuff

edit:
ahh crap its all in chinese, gotta rely on autotranslate lol

edit2:
autotransalte SUCKS
can any chinese/english people here do the english speaking world a favor and translate the links to english lol.
It would be a hell of a knowledge bomb for internal martial arts.
Last edited by luniac on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby luniac on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:04 am

ahh dam ur right guys maybe it isn't true that he removed everything except ti bao.
I found where i read it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiquan
It's in the last few paragraphs in the history section.


I've been thinking bout yiquan more lately and i feel that at it's core, it really is all about the "feeling" you get when doing zhan zhuang for awhile.
That "feeling" however is useless if you can't move with it.
So you train shi li which has appropriately been called zhan zhuang in motion.

Once you can maintain the "feeling" in motion, to emit Fa Li, u literally just... punch. If you can maintain the "feeling", it'll be proper.
Maybe the "feeling" is intent + qi or whatever. Maybe it's just a hyper sensation of internal weight fluctuations.

I play a new york city sport called "Handball", which involves smacking a light hollow rubber ball against a wall, its a lot like martial arts because there's no racket, you smack it with your hands.
That's how i test my yiquan training, and some days are better than others.

But sometimes the "feeling" CLICKS, and i can move my body and smack the ball with perfect balance and power repeatedly.

I'll keep training!
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby yeniseri on Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:27 pm

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:
Wanderingdragon wrote:Wangs understanding and teaching is very much for those with solid and fundamental foundation in TCMA.


I've looked at most what is seen in Yiquan as foundation practice, to build a strong foundation.
If you already have a strong foundation in TCMA, it means that you have already have had your share of standing practice. It makes no sense that you should let people go through foundations practice a second time if they already have built one.

if i remember right you say you have done quite a lot of XYQ training, then you should know that standing practice is not just standing there. All XYQ practice is very much about moving....but you know that already?


Today, most people refuse to do the santshi, zhuangfa condition (yangsheng ;D ??? ) elements so people fall short only looking for movement while neglecting the foundation of "movement', of which standing is one essential element. I tell the story of my teacher who started teaching zhuangfa (taijizhuang ??? )/zhanzhuang but he stopped because people were just not showing up or making excuses on why they could not come for practice. So he went back to teaching form(s) as foundation ??? ;D
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:24 pm

yeniseri wrote:
Trick wrote:[
standing practice is not just standing there.


Today, most people refuse to do the santshi,
I have never meet any teacher or student of "Hebei" XYQ that refuse the importance of santishi practice
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Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

Postby Fa Xing on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:55 am

Trick wrote:
yeniseri wrote:
Trick wrote:[
standing practice is not just standing there.


Today, most people refuse to do the santshi,
I have never meet any teacher or student of "Hebei" XYQ that refuse the importance of santishi practice


Yep, I would say it's the most important Zhan Zhuang you can do, and if you only have time for one, that should be it.
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