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Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:33 pm
by luniac
I've read that towards the end of his life, Wang greatly simplified his teachings and only taught the Zhan Zhuang Ti Bao pose, since he considered it the "universal" pose. He also stopped teaching shili and regarding force said "there is no force". That one must transcend the "duality" of relax and tension, fast and slow, etc etc.
Supposedly at this point nobody could really understand Wang's teaching anymore.

Does anyone know where I can read more about Wang's old age final philosophies and teaching methods before dying?

thanks.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:36 pm
by windwalker
luniac wrote:I've read that towards the end of his life, Wang greatly simplified his teachings and only taught the Zhan Zhuang Ti Bao pose, since he considered it the "universal" pose. He also stopped teaching shili and regarding force said "there is no force". That one must transcend the "duality" of relax and tension, fast and slow, etc etc.
Supposedly at this point nobody could really understand Wang's teaching anymore.

Does anyone know where I can read more about Wang's old age final philosophies and teaching methods before dying?

thanks.


you might try this

意拳正軌
THE CORRECT PATH OF YIQUAN
王薌齋
by Wang Xiangzhai
[1929]

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... of-yiquan/

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:52 pm
by everything
nice first post.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:25 pm
by luniac
windwalker wrote:
luniac wrote:I've read that towards the end of his life, Wang greatly simplified his teachings and only taught the Zhan Zhuang Ti Bao pose, since he considered it the "universal" pose. He also stopped teaching shili and regarding force said "there is no force". That one must transcend the "duality" of relax and tension, fast and slow, etc etc.
Supposedly at this point nobody could really understand Wang's teaching anymore.

Does anyone know where I can read more about Wang's old age final philosophies and teaching methods before dying?

thanks.


you might try this

意拳正軌
THE CORRECT PATH OF YIQUAN
王薌齋
by Wang Xiangzhai
[1929]

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... of-yiquan/


Not sure if you read my OP, the book was written in 1929, decades before his death.
I have read that translation and didn't really like it, too abstract overall for my taste.
In fact his second book "Central Pivot of the Way of Fist" from 1940's clearly shows dramatically less "abstract" concepts and more towards actionable practice.
I've also read the collection of essays "Zhan Zhuang" from 1950's as well as the translated interview with Wang.

Non of these mention his very final teaching where he abandoned almost everything except I guess the Ti Bao pose.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:26 pm
by luniac
everything wrote:nice first post.


lol thanks.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:48 pm
by windwalker
luniac wrote:
Not sure if you read my OP, the book was written in 1929, decades before his death.
I have read that translation and didn't really like it, too abstract overall for my taste.
In fact his second book "Central Pivot of the Way of Fist" from 1940's clearly shows dramatically less "abstract" concepts and more towards actionable practice.
I've also read the collection of essays "Zhan Zhuang" from 1950's as well as the translated interview with Wang.

Non of these mention his very final teaching where he abandoned almost everything except I guess the Ti Bao pose.


yep, looks like I missed it.

luck in training,
welcome to RSF ;)

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:17 pm
by Taste of Death
In yiquan we focus our training on the body state (zhuangtai) not techniques and applications. Holding the bao and being able to move with it is essence of yiquan.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:22 am
by cloudz
It's an interesting one.. I don't know that much about Wang, but what you wrote it reminds me of something that's been on my mind recently.. I was reading a little of one of SLT writings/ books from the same pages.. It was crazy how often he mentioned and talked about "emptiness". But it's incredibly hard to pin down what he truly means by it in any literal sense. But it sounds eerily like this 'transcendence of duality', to me..

What's tricky about it is that (for me anyway) is that empty is (usually) a part of a duality of empty and full that is often talked about particularly in TCC.

I think what you're dealing with is an experience essentially so I wouldn't put too much stock in getting much insight from words alone - though I guess they can point us in a direction - no one can describe how a banana tastes to you for example. If we accept that all Wang really had was an experiential insight that he could no longer talk about - words rely on duality to make sense to us after all !

The best any of us can really do is stay on the path, the internal training path.. I think anyway. And we start to have similar experiences and insights. Your time will come grasshopper ;D

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:32 am
by Patrick
Where exactly did you hear that? If it is not written I doubt it...

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:59 am
by cloudz
Patrick wrote:Where exactly did you hear that? If it is not written I doubt it...



It sounds perfectly believable actually, to me.. But sure I'd like to hear about that too. Probably oral/ lineage teaching or something like that, I'd imagine.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:12 am
by Wanderingdragon
I think it would be important to read any and all of Old Master Wangs public interviews and treatises while diligently learning the art you study completely. In this way your understanding will be on the same evolutionary curve as Wang Xiangzhai, making it easier to recognize what he is saying. The understanding Is in the training, it will never begin from where he speaks.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:35 am
by suckinlhbf
your understanding will be on the same evolutional curve as Wang Xiangzhai


+1

We should try to know and understand the training path of Wang, and how he evolved to YiQuan. The little thing likes Wang was very disapproved to Sandbag training at the beginning, and agreed later to it would also help to understand Wang's YiQuan, and the change after.

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:31 am
by dacheng
In 2002 Li Tao and Li Quanyou, disciples of Wang Xiangzhai's daughter Wang Yufang (Li Quanyou learned also from Li Yongzong, Li Zhiliang and Wang Xuanjie) published a collection of Wang Xiangzhai's works, which included texts which were not published previously or in other collections, which until then were kept, and finally revealed by Wang Yufang.

According to them Wang wrote those texts in 1959 in Tianjin.

Here you can read them online:

意拳拳谱与八法训练之法则
http://www.360doc.com/content/11/0919/0 ... 5551.shtml

意拳断手述要与意拳实用之方法
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_91e7cb7b0102wzo2.html

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:54 am
by Patrick
And here it is written that he is now only teaching ti bao zhuang?

Re: Wang Xiangzhai late life teachin style

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:24 am
by MaartenSFS
Sounds like a case of 走火入魔...

I've met a master that said that Taijiquan is the best and you should only use internal power. He studied Shaolinquan, amongst other things, and could fight well before learning Taiji. Literally none of his students could fight their way out of a wet paper bag and this master constantly frowns at them in digust. He looks down on everyone and everything else. He hasn't sparred in decades. It's beneath him now.

My master said that perhaps one in a thousand of his students might achieve some skill in Gongfu learning things his way. As time goes on he is becoming ever more esoteric, pulling away from reality, cultivating the perfect image he has of himself. I'm happy to not count myself amongst his students..