the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

挤 Ji can be translated as squeeze. That is how the Google translates it. I think of it in this sense as "crowd" or "press in" or "squeeze in".

What do you make of this translation in a taijiquan context?

I train ji as a triangulating body force, so that translation works well. It sounds like you're describing a tactic though of getting close or pressurizing the other guy. For me the bamen are about using the body in certain ways. If you're using the body force as a tactic to acheive something fair enough, otherwise they aren't simply tactics without useing the body a certain way, they are ways to use the body for martial purposes. Or at least that's how I have learned them.

Well, ya could argue that "squeeze" or compress is the opposite of "split" or separate. Unfortunately, I'm afraid to say, those are concepts/ideas. There are loads of ways to riff off those ideas in application.

Squeeze is how it was always translated for me, although 'press' was also used. As George says above however, Ji is 'triangulation' for me.

An interesting analogy i like to use is to imagine squeezing someone into the corner of a room. Triangulation, compression or pressing force, and squeezing as hands follow the walls to the corner. Simply take the walls away from this mental exercise and you are left with the feeling of Ji as i have felt it.

thanks.

Steve James wrote:Well, ya could argue that "squeeze" or compress is the opposite of "split" or separate. Unfortunately, I'm afraid to say, those are concepts/ideas. There are loads of ways to riff off those ideas in application.

they aren't just concepts and ideas though, they are also ways to organize body forces and use them in application. It's also not the opposite of split. Split can move away from eachother or towards eachother but not triangulating like ji to a single point. there's some similarity there. So for example when you have an arm from the outside left position and are pulling it towards you with your right arm and applying an opposite force on the upper arm just higher than the elbow joint that is also split. so split is 2 directional but they can move away or toward eachother. When going towards eachother there is an element of ji in there. so hardly opposite.

So rollback to standing armbar for example can combine lu, lieh and some ji

Yeah, to squeeze or split. Where do we disagree?

I have edited/ elaborated. maybe we agree ?

edit: the opposite thing(split is opposite to ji), that was it I think..

Well, actually, I don't disagree with your explanation. I wasn't saying that lieh was the opposite of ji. I deliberately tried to avoid referring to "ji" (press) in the Yang form because I know that gets into specific applications that may be different. But, the op used "compress" -- and so I was thinking in terms of what the opposite energy would be. You're right that "lieh" or split can be "kai" or "he." It's still splitting something. Splitting the opponent's arm up (at the elbow, for ex.) and splitting his arm down are two applications of "lieh." I'm not arguing with you or that point.

There's a bunch that could be said (written about) afa applications of "ji." But, then it'll become the usual discussion of how "we" do it or apply it in "our" system.

Disrupt/unbalance/rattle

everything wrote:挤 Ji can be translated as squeeze. That is how the Google translates it. I think of it in this sense as "crowd" or "press in" or "squeeze in".

What do you make of this translation in a taijiquan context?

I agree with you.
From MDGB -
to crowd in / to cram in / to force others aside / to press / to squeeze / to find (time in one's busy schedule)

to crowd in / to cram in / to force others aside / to press / to squeeze all have a common idea. If your opponent had their back against a wall and you applied ji jin you would squeeze them. In this case, force someone aside - you force them back.

In wrestling,

1. "挤 (Ji) - squeeze" is used when your opponent lifts one leg up and stands on one leg.
2. It's a horizontal force.
3. You should end with a bow arrow stance.

It's the Death Star force.

https://taichicentral.com/ji-jing-tai-chi-is-like-the-death-star/

Thanks a lot. Interesting discussion and insights!

1. triangulation - never heard or thought of this way. That really helps. Also really interesting to compare/contrast split and ji. Hmm.
2. wresting terminology - so it's very different? Or are you saying it's similar?
3. Death Star - lol, but enjoyed that article

I was once "pressed" really well with the classic two-hand "press" shape - triangulating into the one point on me - and sent up and away an impressive amount. No magical "qi" there (and no, no finishing move) but darn if that wasn't one of the coolest demos to feel.

Don't wander off the path - ji is using Jin in a direction away from the body. That's it.

everything wrote:2. wresting terminology - so it's very different? Or are you saying it's similar?

In wrestling, Ji can be used to counter all leg attack such as foot sweep, horse back kick, inner hook, outer hook, cut, ..., The moment that your opponent uses his leg to attack your leg, the moment that you move your leg "behind his rooting leg", end with a bow arrow stance, use your body to squeeze on his body, and take him down.

- 反踢挤(Fan Ti Ji) - use squeeze to counter foot sweep.
- 反别挤(Fan Bie Ji) - use squeeze to counter horse back kick.
- ...