the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Bao wrote:The gua, dan tian, spine, muscles of the back, scapula, shoulder. All the 8 wins use body mechanics in a very distinct manner. Some movements focus more on kai than on he, some more he than kai. Some use "rising energy", some others use "falling energy", some use contraction, some use expansion. Looking at the body mechanics, they are all opposites to each other in different ways.

That's an interesting perspective, that what distinguishes the 8 "jin" is what combination of body mechanics is used in each. I'm not sure that is true, but an interesting way to look at it.

If you mean Fengs one on the Ba Fa, then I don't really get a lot from that at all. I see a dude waving his arms around a lot and some fuzzy audio..
Is there a time stamp which would help?

I was thinking more a description from you on how you do it as it relates to 'ji', as you understand it. Would I get a description of what he's doing, how he's powering the shin from that video.
I'm a bit lost, sorry.

charles wrote:Here's one guys take on the 8 things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byvV5FUZCn8

I don't speak Mandarin, but I can pick out peng, lu, ji, an, and so on. Here is some English to go with it.

Feng Zhiqiang - Originally published in the June 2000 issue of T'ai Chi Magazine in an interview with Yang Yang and Scott Grubisich

Peng means energy goes up; lu, back (left or right side); ji, forward; an, down. But peng is also expressed in lu, ji, and an. Lu is back peng. Ji is forward peng. An is down peng. If you don't have the peng energy, you are too soft. Peng/lu/ji/an are just the variation of peng: up/down, forward/backward, and left right.

It's interesting to see his breakdown and that he attributes lu to left and right as well as back. That gets you the six directions of force.

charles wrote:

Bao wrote:The gua, dan tian, spine, muscles of the back, scapula, shoulder. All the 8 wins use body mechanics in a very distinct manner. Some movements focus more on kai than on he, some more he than kai. Some use "rising energy", some others use "falling energy", some use contraction, some use expansion. Looking at the body mechanics, they are all opposites to each other in different ways.

That's an interesting perspective, that what distinguishes the 8 "jin" is what combination of body mechanics is used in each. I'm not sure that is true, but an interesting way to look at it.

It might not be true to how most people look at the 8 jins today, but I do believe that this view follow the traditional thoughts of Tai Chi as internal practice and the development from practice as neidan. And also as I write earlier, chinese thought is highly individualistic and subjective. Most of things starts and end with the individual. You can see this in warefare tradition and martial arts where the height and of every weapon is tailor made to suite the length of the individual person. I believe that everything in all TCMA also starts from the practitioner's own body. So you can not start looking at the art from the outside in, but instead you must always go from inside and out. Just my own thoughts, other people might have other ways to approach it for their own good reasons.

It seems like it has to be that way since each individual has to do. But most of us need some kind of example from the outside in to learn.

YT auto recommender brought up this video for me, in which Feng is demoing the 8 in a more ph context (demo). I can't make out everything he's saying but I don't think it really needs much translation. You can hear him say "ji" and so on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoGIPgvI_5c

cloudz wrote:If you mean Fengs one on the Ba Fa, then I don't really get a lot from that at all. I see a dude waving his arms around a lot and some fuzzy audio..
Is there a time stamp which would help?

The first half of the video is him showing his "walking drills" for the ba fa. After that, he is mostly showing each of the 8 with various parts of the body, various actions. Use of shin/knee at 5:49 of the previous video I posted. "Ji, ji, ji..."

Here is a fairly common "push hands" exercise for the shin/knee using "ji". See 16:49 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8XtEip ... m6DFK1a82q There is another common variation with constant contact while circling the knee, no stepping. I can't readily find a video of it.

Try this at 4:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqslyyuJCQU

everything wrote:YT auto recommender brought up this video for me, in which Feng is demoing the 8 in a more ph context (demo). I can't make out everything he's saying but I don't think it really needs much translation. You can hear him say "ji" and so on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoGIPgvI_5c

This one is similar, but with more annotation of what he is doing with each action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1i1fSyBDj8

thanks for the ba fa videos of feng. that last one seems really helpful to me.

shin

oh you mean like this (around 1:24)? not a tai chi video hahaha. but a shin strike. the same strike as in 2:20 in the above Feng video (but um exaggerated for effect)