piquan as qigong / TCM

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby everything on Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:25 am

This is more of a "qi hugging", health, and TCM kind of question, perhaps slightly "internal power" but not really, and nothing about mechanics or applications...

What is going on, and what are some tips regarding doing piquan mainly from a qigong and TCM point of view? There is a rising and downward feeling (literally internally, not just mechanically), but what else? What is "metal" in theory? Why does Sun Lutang (in his manual) mention "lung energy"? Etc. Thanks.
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Patrick on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:35 am

I do not know if this helps you or not, but according to Wang Xiangzhai the elements refer to qualities.

"Metal means the strength contained in the bones and the muscles, the mind being firm like iron or stone, being able to cut gold and steel. Wood has the meaning of the bending but rooted posture of a tree. Water means force like the waves of the vast sea, lively like a dragon or a snake, when used, it is able to pervade everything. Fire means strength being like gunpowder, fists being like bullets shot out, having the strength to burn the opponent’s body by the first touch. Earth means exerting strength heavy, deep, solid, and perfectly round, the qi being strong, having the force of oneness with heaven and earth.

This is the syncretism of the five elements. It has nothing to do with one technique overcoming another technique as the modern people claim. If one first sees with the eyes, then thinks of it again in the mind, and then launches the counter-attack towards the enemy, it is very seldom that one will not get beaten up. "
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Yeung on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:10 am

There are two aspects of the Piquan. The first one is to generate impact on the lung meridian from LU-1 (Zhong Fu) to Lu-11 (Shao Shang). The second one is to maximize the squeeze on the lung. The Five Element Fist has impact on the six normal Yin meridians and relevant organs.
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Peacedog on Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:14 am

By properly training the ligaments and tendons in the body it is possible to exert some level of control over the fasciae that shapes individual organs.

As Yeung mentions this manifests as a kind of squeezing sensation of the organ. It can also be extrapolated to the meridians to a degree.

In Hermetics we have an exercise that does this linking the Kaballistic letters with all of the major organs by vibrating a sound and pushing/pulling on the fasciae that supports an organ.

Sound familiar to the six healing sounds?

The fists in Xing Yi can be made to do this. Tom Bisio has a book on this involving the different palms in Ba Gua Zhang as well.

It is a pretty common phenomenon in "internal" systems.
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby everything on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:40 pm

Thanks a lot, everybody. Hmm, really interesting.
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Strange on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Yeung wrote:There are two aspects of the Piquan. The first one is to generate impact on the lung meridian from LU-1 (Zhong Fu) to Lu-11 (Shao Shang). The second one is to maximize the squeeze on the lung. The Five Element Fist has impact on the six normal Yin meridians and relevant organs.


where did you get this information from?
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby KEND on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:44 am

Pichuan at basic level exercises the small muscles which raise and lower the ribs [other elements exercise muscles such as internal and external intercostals], this increases blood flow, lung efficiency and capacity. At a more advanced level the mind is projected to surface of fascia, muscle and membrane, again promoting blood flow to little used areas and facilitating use of anatomy trains
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Yeung on Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:51 am

Strange wrote:
Yeung wrote:There are two aspects of the Piquan. The first one is to generate impact on the lung meridian from LU-1 (Zhong Fu) to Lu-11 (Shao Shang). The second one is to maximize the squeeze on the lung. The Five Element Fist has impact on the six normal Yin meridians and relevant organs.


where did you get this information from?


References:

He, J. (2011) Origin and formation of five-element theory, Journal of Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Vol. 34, No. 7, (abstract in English)

Jing, H. (2000) Yin-yang & Five-element Theory and the Yellow Emperor’s Canon of Internal Medicine, Studies of Zhouyi, No. 45 (No. 3 in 2000) (abstract in English)

Li, D.Z., Fu, S.T., Li. X,Z. (2005) Study on theory and clinical application of meridians (Ⅲ), Chinese Acupuncture & Moxibustion, Volume 25, No. 1 (abstract in English)

Ma, T.H. (2002) My Understandings on Regularities of the Circulation, Handing over and
Taking over of Yin-qi and Yang-qi of the Twelve Meridians, Acupuncture Research, Volume 27 No. 4 (abstract in English)

Sun, L. T. (1915) Xingyiquan Xue (A Study of Xingyiquan), Shanghai Zhong Xi Xin Ji Printing Office, Shanghai (in Chinese)

Wang, H. M. (2005) Law of Distribution of Meridian, Chinese Journal of Clinical Rehabilitation, Volume 9, No. 1

Yeung, Y.C. (2012) Classical Theory of Kinetic Chains, IMAS Yearbook 2011-2012

Zheng, H.B. (2009) Spleen Governing Four Seasons, Journal of Zhejing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Volume 33, No. 1 (abstract in English)

Zhou, Z. F. (1991) Zhou Yi Yi Fu (Annotation of the Book of Changes from the Zhou Dynasty), Zhonghua Bookstore, Beijing (in Chinese)
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Strange on Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:01 pm

what page and which paragraph in particular?
can you give some example?
in which part of piquan are the lungs squeezed ?
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby everything on Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:31 pm

I am not the one who said that but if you experiment for a moment:

- inhale as you start the movement and your ribcage expands
- exhale as you do the chopping down movement and your ribcage squeezes back in

it starts to make more sense. Easier if you kind of just expand your arms then chop them downward with very little outward movement. Ok, actually that all seems pretty clear and straightforward after some experimentation...
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby Yeung on Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:57 am

Strange wrote:what page and which paragraph in particular?
can you give some example?
in which part of piquan are the lungs squeezed ?


The five element theory of Xingyiquyan, Institute of Martial Arts and Sciences, IMAS Quarterly, Vol 2, Issue 1, Winter 2012/1013, page 48, lines 6-11:

The chopping action is by rotating the forearm inward holding a fist to flex the arm, and recoiling to stretch forward with the hand open, abduction of the wrist (fingers pointing upward), elbow pointing downward, protraction of the shoulder, and bending the upper back forward to compress the relaxed chest. This action stretches the lung meridian which runs from LU1 (Zhong Fu) under the clavicle near the armpit to LU11 (Shao Shang) on the radial side of the thumb nail, and compresses the lungs as well.
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Re: piquan as qigong / TCM

Postby everything on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:15 am

Fascinating. Thanks for this info.
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