Are techniques universal?

[johnwang]

Evidence that techniques are universal to the human body and not from this or that system.

Rhen's post make me to think. Are techniques truly universal?

The following 3 Chinese wrestling techniques that I have not seen ever used in any MA system yet.

1. Knee strike single leg - Use knee to strike at the inside of your opponent's upper leg, bounce his leg off the ground, you then grab that leg and take him down.
2. Double inner hooks - use right leg to hook your opponent's left leg off the ground. You use right hand to grab that leg. You then use left leg to hook his right leg off the ground. Since he will have no leg left, he will fall.
3. Outer twist - When you get head lock on your opponent, you use your right leg to twist your opponent's right leg, bend his knee joint inward, and crash his structure. This technique is extremely dangerous to train with your partner.

In mathematics, if you want to prove a theory is wrong, all you need is to find a "counter example".

Will you be able to come up any technique that you have not seen in other MA systems?

[Trick]

The societal environment is of course a factor on how MA evolves. When I was a kid it was considered a cowardly act to kick someone in a fight, but of course everyone know that a kick to the shinbones or balls (for example) was a possibility. About wrestling I found this interesting site, just want to share http://www.viking-glima.com/styles.html

[cloudz]

Well Rhen said Universal to the human body. I didn't see that thread or context yet. But for me where a technique comes from isn't an issue. I think there are techniques that are a preserve of some styles or groups of styles. But any technique can be adopted by anyone, anywhere at any time. The universality here isn't about the idea of something appearing all over the place, like say a rear straight or cross or hip throw. There's a trend to high percentage in systems that compete, that's just natural. As other less obvious things pop up in the mainstream they might start to catch on too. A good example might be Jon Jones oblique kicking. I like to use these and they are all over TCMA. I think the Universal idea is that they are all there for the taking and anyone can use them if they wish, but there's a lot to compete with and Chinese wrestling hasn't competed and proven itself against other wrestling systems in the world - so why should MMA guys sit up and take notice of Chinese wrestling ? I can't tell you how many techniques I've robbed from everywhere. Some I like, some not so much, some I stick with and so on. it absolutely doesn't bother me where a technique comes from, if I like it I like it and if it fits with me, with my direction, it fits. There so much technique in martial arts I try not to get too bogged down in it and take it as it comes. My first priority is to work outwards from a TCC base and make it as bad ass as humanly possible for myself, my standard.

Q:Are techniques Universal?

A:They should be, yes.

[cloudz]

I just saw the thread..

With striking it's easier as there's less variation. old time boxing in particular you'll see striking that's more 'traditional'.. the traditional western striking will not be miles away from it's Eastern counterparts.

The depth and variation of grappling, the different rules and types of wrestling around the world
the sheer depth of technique is staggering.

I recall watching a program on Turkish oil wrestling. the trainer/ old hand was indicating there were around 300-400 techniques.

But then you turn around and watch say MMA regularly the succesful and fairly common techniques of wrestling and grappling are much fewer.

[middleway]

For me how common/universal a technique is directly maps onto its success rate for the majority. If something is relatively easy to make work by most people, and it works alot of the time, you will generally see it all over the place.

So you wont see much of this (not that it wont work in the right hands):







But tend to see alot of this.









So to answer the question .... sort of.

Thanks.

[RobP3]

Surely principles are universal? Techniques are an expression of principles passed through cultural, practical, aesthetic and other filters. You cannae defy the laws of physics!

[everything]

But then you turn around and watch say MMA regularly the succesful and fairly common techniques of wrestling and grappling are much fewer.

- for mma this is what makes interesting match-ups: each opponent is good at all those common high % techniques, but one is better at X, and one is better at Y. Then you get a guy like Jones who is mostly better at X and Y, plus adds Z that people didn't know about.

- for normal people at a normal level, just being reasonably good at X and Y is pretty good. When they obsess with Z and cannot do X and Y, that's why we have these threads where we lament the state of some specific style/art.

[johnwang]

What's the percentage of population that can answer the following question? If most of the earth population don't know how to solve this problem, what make you think that MA technique can be universal?

Travelling salesman problem

Given a list of cities and the distances between each pair of cities, what is the shortest possible route that visits each city exactly once and returns to the origin city?"

[johnwang]

Can you come up 35 different ways to do "foot sweep"? If you can only come up 10, what make you think that MA technique can be universal?

Is "flying knee" universal? Before I saw the MT flying knee, I truly didn't know that there is a such MA technique as "flying knee". IMO, if you don't know, you just don't know.

[everything]

Maybe not exactly, but "flying" strikes were probably in various ancient styles. Various humans (groups, not necessarily individuals) probably came up with different but similar (from our view) round strikes, straight strikes, flying strikes, how to use them against in each other in certain situations. Same with locks (maybe especially since they all oppose natural joint range/direction of motion). Probably that applies to throws (humans all try to keep standing/balance the same natural way for the most part - on two feet - with the exception of some weird styles, e.g., the old BJJ guys lying down in early MMA matches, waiting for ground game). When you look at it at that "zoom level" as Dmitri put it, it all seems the same.

[Steve James]

If by universal, you mean that all styles have all techniques, then no. There's no flying back kick (as in Eagle Claw) or TKD-like axe kick in Yang tcc styles.

Otoh, that's reducing the subject to the technique rather than the goal. I.e., you could ask whether the idea of knocking someone out by striking him in the head with the hand or foot is universal. In that case I would say yes. However, doing it by dropping the opponent on his head might be considered universal to throwing arts.

[johnwang]

If by universal, you mean that all styles have all techniques, then no. There's no flying back kick (as in Eagle Claw) or TKD-like axe kick in Yang tcc styles.

Otoh, that's reducing the subject to the technique rather than the goal. I.e., you could ask whether the idea of knocking someone out by striking him in the head with the hand or foot is universal. In that case I would say yes. However, doing it by dropping the opponent on his head might be considered universal to throwing arts.

We are talking about universal technique and not universal principle. If you don't even know a certain technique exist, you won't be able to do that technique. The reverse roundhouse kick (duck kick?) can be a good example. If you have never seen it, you won't be able to do it.

[Steve James]

We are talking about universal technique

Then, no, there are no universal "techniques." Technique (or "how to do") is what differentiates the martial aspect of a martial arts. You seem to be arguing two sides. CXW can jump kick. That doesn't mean that jump kicks are universal.

[Steve James]

Are there any flying back kicks in shuiajiao?

[johnwang]

Are there any flying back kicks in shuiajiao?

It was not there before this generation. It will be there after this generation.