New style of Tai Chi

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:22 pm

charles wrote:
Appledog wrote:So I explained to him not to worry, I had studied Yang style under this lineage, Chen style under that lineage, Sun style (which I had demonstrated him earlier) and even spent some time in Eddie Wu's school.


I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I'm curious who were your primary teachers of Taijiquan. Living in the Toronto area, I'm familiar with Eddie Wu's school and used to know several of his disciples. Who were the other of your primary teachers from whom you learned more than most people learn?


I don't think you're being confrontational :) I believe you're honestly trying to figure this all out just like I am. Let me put it this way. It has nothing to do with who my teachers are. After x number of years I went back and visited one of my old schools. There were 5 or 6 people who had been with this particular sifu for all of that time -- more than a decade. But unbelievably, I was better than they were even at tantui. Despite not having practiced those things for over 10 years. I was actually shocked at how bad the senior students were. I mean, it looked as if they had only been doing it for a couple of months. I teach 5 and 6 year old kids tantui. Their form reminded me a little of teaching those kids in the beginning. I didn't understand, how could they be so bad? Was it their fault? I just didn't understand. Do you understand? It's just that they were not very serious, right? Was that it? What is it about all those people that prevents them from learning?

I actually felt kind of sorry for teacher at that point. How the hell did these people stick with him for 10, 15, 20+ years and never get any good? It's because of the time and dedication it takes to approach this art? Why the heck was he even still teaching? Such a name, such a lineage, so much prestige.. For these people? It's not that they were not good people, they were good, nice people, it's just.. wow, even if you only ever practiced in class I couldn't imagine them being that bad. I dunno. It was just... weird.

I already went through the process of giving up most of my life for this art in preparation of finding some kind of shorter path or short circuit path so that people like this could at least get in the door and not have to give up the art after 10, 20, 30 years. I dropped out of university to practice tai chi in the park in the morning. No teacher told me to do that.

I don't even know the name of some of my teachers. Just old guys in the park.

I'm sorry if this isn't a satisfying answer, but I have to save something for the book.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Taijikid on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:16 pm

Appledog,

You don't have to think of a name now. All you have to do is to train a few students and show the results. People look at your students accomplishments and judge you and your system just like you judge your old school.

To that end, I would like to see videos of some of your 6 -7 years old students (they should have been practicing for over a year now) doing tantui.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby GrahamB on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:28 am

Appledog wrote:
GrahamB wrote:Somebody who thinks they are good enough to start their own style should have no problem posting a video clip. You however seem to have fallen at the first hurdle...


This could be solved simply and quickly by asking you yourself to post a video of yourself doing tai chi recently. After all, since you say it would normally be required to establish credibility, you would need to first establish the credibility of such a system in order to credibly ask others to participate.

Are you willing to take part in the creation of such a system of peer review? I am guessing it doesn't matter to you since you don't really do Tai Chi anymore? Help me see the light on this.


I don't quite understand your reply, but it seems that you are afraid to post a video. i just posted one yesterday. It's on the forum.

Good luck with your training.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:16 am

Appledog wrote:
I already went through the process of giving up most of my life for this art in preparation of finding some kind of shorter path or short circuit path
In all it's seriousness don't be too serious, have some fun. Replace 'Karate' with 'Taijiquan'
“It is necessary to drink alcohol and pursue other fun human activities. The art (Karate) of someone who is too serious has no flavor.” – Choki Motobu.- “The more understanding you have about Karate, the less you need to change or modify it.” – Tsuguo Sakumoto (former World Karate Champion and master of Ryuei-ryu Karate). http://www.karatebyjesse.com/karate-quotes/
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:05 am

GrahamB wrote:I don't quite understand your reply, but it seems that you are afraid to post a video. i just posted one yesterday. It's on the forum.


Simple. Since you seem to want to judge others' tai chi ability via a video, we should first establish your own credibility to ask such a thing in the first place. So post a video of yourself doing tai chi, that will establish the system. It would be unfair for you to introduce some kind of arbitrary test or rule for others which did not also apply to yourself, correct?

GrahamB wrote:Good luck with your training.


Thx~ working on bridge progression today. I think i'm going to make it a white belt requirement. Either that or chin to toe :)
Last edited by Appledog on Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:29 am

Most people here have posted at some time if you want to be taken seriously you need to anti up
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby RobP3 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:44 am

Why are we still feeding this troll?
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:01 am

RobP3 wrote:Why are we still feeding this troll?


My thought exactly. I gave him a chance to answer some questions, but obviously he can not. So obviously in need of attention.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Dmitri on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:32 am

Appledog wrote:... I have to save something for the book.

Oh yeah, that's understandable.

I have some questions regarding this part:
I would also promise that they would achieve some competence at fighting -- again, with a money back guarantee.

What kind of fighting experience/expertise do you possess that allows you to make that promise? Does it all comes from your 20 years of tai chi practice?

Also, how would the money-back guarantee work in that case? When someone gets into a fight and fails to exhibit "some competence" (gets beaten up), would you refund them their entire curriculum fees, or just a specific limited amount? I'm very interested in logistics on this one, as it's an interesting promise that I don't see any other tai chi (or other MA) schools making, so that will most definitely set yours apart from everyone else.
Last edited by Dmitri on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Appledog on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:40 am

Dmitri wrote:how would the money-back guarantee work in that case? When someone gets into a fight and fails to exhibit "some competence" (gets beaten up), would you refund them their entire curriculum fees, or just a specific limited amount? I'm very interested in logistics on this one, as it's an interesting promise that I don't see any other tai chi (or other MA) schools making, so that will most definitely set yours apart from everyone else.


Good question. But don't you think it's illogical to expect that someone will get their tuition fee refunded if they get beat up somewhere? Well, how it works is simple. If someone trains in my style, you would expect that they would get better as time goes by. let us call this variable (time) T and skill S. I aim to show that skill (S) increases in some proportion with time (T) such that S = NT -- more or less. Charting N would be simple. You just record the results of push hands/sparring/sanda/however serious you want to take it (have different divisions, for example a drills division, push hands division, open sparring division, etc). Then it should be trivial to show that as T increases the students move up in rating (or not -- in which case the system does not work). If it could be established for example that the results of training at various belt levels generally gave students a sort of progression towards combat ability then you would expect students who had been studying for longer or who had been putting in more effort to generally do better than students who had not been putting in the hours.

At some point you could cross-compare the system with something like amateur mma-- send in some people, see how they do, see if you can peg basic competency at level x y or z, as a result of various kinds of training. But in it's initial stages I think it would give students a great amount of confidence to know that they were making progress towards actually being able to use their art to fight if they needed to.
Last edited by Appledog on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby GrahamB on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:42 am

RobP3 wrote:Why are we still feeding this troll?


Good point. He's either seriously deluded or just deliberately trolling the forum. I'm out.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby yeniseri on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:18 am

All the styles after Chen family style are "new style" and even Beijing shi taijiquan was alleged to be such so just changing external choreography does't make a style "new" but they all possess yamgshengong through principle and concept. Of course, the martial conditioning, etc must be taught, trained and tested to fit whatever this "new" paradigm is, or should be in a 'new style'.

Men Huifeng created a New Style called Dongyue Taijiquan alittle while ago but here is an except

Last edited by yeniseri on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:42 am

Well, the fellas at Zhao Bao will say that their style is the real original. But, all these claims are basically folk history, and as Charles and others have pointed out, the Chens named their art after the family. They didn't call it tcc.

Anyway, it is interesting to discuss what deserves to be called a "new" style of tcc. In fact, in every case we can think of, a tcc style was named after after a famous martial arts practitioner and his family. The individual way they practiced/performed tcc differentiated their style from others. In most cases, they brought something individual or new to what had been called tcc before. Yang style was called so because it was not Chen style, whether it was called tcc or not. Sun style, Wu style, Fu style, etc., were called such because of the individual practitioner.

Now, suppose Mike Tyson learned some tcc system somewhere, and then added things like the D'Amato shift or emphasized certain aspects of the art that he'd used in boxing. Suppose he did that and then opened up a tcc school, calling what he taught Tyson tcc.
Some might say that he wasn't teaching tcc. However, the name branding would be legitimate.

I think that everyone ultimately creates his or her own tcc when he or she has to use it. The question is who the student chooses to learn from. One of the obvious qualifications would be the success of the teacher and his students. And, yeah, you could argue with Tyson and tell him to close up shop or face the consequences.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:42 am

yeniseri wrote:All the styles after Chen family style are "new style" and even Beijing shi taijiquan was alleged to be such so just changing external choreography does't make a style "new" but they all possess yamgshengong through principle and concept. Of course, the martial conditioning, etc must be taught, trained and tested to fit whatever this "new" paradigm is, or should be in a 'new style'.

Men Huifeng created a New Style called Dongyue Taijiquan alittle while ago but here is an except

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdO3Cc_rPEA


something I was also going to mention using this style relatively "new"
my friends grand teacher


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkH9JNBM6Jg

Grandmaster Wang was the founder of what would be commonly known as Water Style Tai Chi Chuan based on traditional Yang Style. This style of Tai Chi moves like flowing water; very mesmerizing and beautiful. Beyond the beauty, when it strikes, its power is like that of a tsunami. Like water, it penetrates any part of your structure. Feel free to check out Master Lam on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILlz3G3hdxE

https://www.facebook.com/events/665753120174135/

My friends teacher Master Gary Lam, very martial and hands on in his approach to taiji training.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New style of Tai Chi

Postby richardg6 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:17 pm

It is important to surrender to a power greater than yourself and accept a teacher or you will get nowhere.
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