Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:33 pm

My wrist is mostly healed by now since I began studying the two-handed sabre (Shuangshoudao). It seems that Miaodao is not really an accurate term for what I'm learning, as it's really a catch-all for all two-handed weapons from roughly Katana to short spear-length (and walking sticks, umbrellas etc.). As such, there are no forms, just a lot of foundation training and applying the Neigong from my unarmed training. We are concurrently studying with another master for a month, whose approach is quite different and possibly more badarse. His power is crazy.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:36 am

I am wondering how you are able to descern the the subtle nuance of Chinese swordsmanship when your training encompasses all of the principles of any weapon, from cudgel to staff to Japanese katana and all in between ? IMO, it is like learning to carve a turkey and realizing the sensitivity of fine surgery.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:32 am

The Chinese cooking knife(cleaver) is basically the only knife to be used in a Chinese kitchen. It is used to chop, smash, cut and finely slice everything from meat, bones, cartilage, fish, birds, vegetables and fruits...and probably some more things too.... Just one short broad bladed knife, Chinese chefs got skills
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:31 pm

The principles are the same. They become an extension of my arm. Granted, some techniques can't be used with one or the other, but it's usually obvious which ones they are. My master is buying a real Miaodao soon to let us train with. That should be interesting.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:24 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:I am wondering how you are able to descern the the subtle nuance of Chinese swordsmanship when your training encompasses all of the principles of any weapon, from cudgel to staff to Japanese katana and all in between ? IMO, it is like learning to carve a turkey and realizing the sensitivity of fine surgery.


MaartenSFS wrote:The principles are the same.


You can try to slash a saw to cut a tree and you can try using an axe like a saw. They both have sharp edges and they can both be swung, so you can surely use the same principles ... :-\ ... It's first when you stop the imagination and stop waving it in air... and when you really try to use their specific functions on the wood you'll understand how different they are.

Trick wrote:The Chinese cooking knife(cleaver) is basically the only knife to be used in a Chinese kitchen. It is used to chop, smash, cut and finely slice everything from meat, bones, cartilage, fish, birds, vegetables and fruits...and probably some more things too.... Just one short broad bladed knife, Chinese chefs got skills


Yeah, and you can saw wood with it like a saw and you can cut up wood with it like an axe. ... And of course, you could use the edge like a spear and cut through a body with a trust... Oh yes... I am sure a skilled chef could...

I agree though that semi-contact practicing strikes with sticks and rods is a better practice than trying to master traditional sword techniques...
Last edited by Bao on Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:37 pm

You are so misguided.. Stop with the trolling.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Oh well continue practicing what you practice. But I think you should consider calling it battle sword or something that illustrates the total commitment to the unorthodox training you've taken up. -shrug- Chinese swordsmanship is quite misleading.
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:03 pm

Bao wrote:
You can try to slash a saw to cut a tree and you can try using an axe like a saw. They both have sharp edges and they can both be swung, so you can surely use the same principles ... :-\ ... It's first when you stop the imagination and stop waving it in air... and when you really try to use their specific functions on the wood you'll understand how different they are.


Yeah, and you can saw wood with it like a saw and you can cut up wood with it like an axe. ... And of course, you could use the edge like a spear and cut through a body with a trust... Oh yes... I am sure a skilled chef could...

What hurts more, a strong slicing cut of an axe blade to the throat or a strong chop cut with a saw ? I have no idea...really do not want to find out.......And wood don't saw or cut back 8-)
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 am

MaartenSFS wrote:You are so misguided.. Stop with the trolling.


LOL! The funniest thing I've read on RSF for a very long time. ;D ;D ;D

Sorry to stop the flow of YOUR thread. Pls, go back to your own fantasy world. :-X
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wiesiek on Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:12 am

hehe
so
we are in old subject now:
art of the principles, versus technically oriented?
Internal art/s/ are build on principles, but without technic in the muscle memory, it doesn`t means to much in the heat of the conflict.
then
work with the principles
AND
do as much practical stuff as you can,
meditation should help tie those two, in one nice internal unit :)

I heard the story about imperial cook- Dong.
His knife never needed sharpening .
When asked how it is possible - His answer was:
It is quite simply,
I direct my knife thru empty spaces between meats fibres,
If knife is use this way , edge never became dull...
joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:51 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:Oh well continue practicing what you practice. But I think you should consider calling it battle sword or something that illustrates the total commitment to the unorthodox training you've taken up. -shrug- Chinese swordsmanship is quite misleading.

Living in China and studying with CMA teachers, learning from them basic wielding of Chinese swords/sabers, and then spar with "safe tools" representing actual swords/sabers......what's missing for this not to be called Chinese swordsmanship?...I don't know......ok maybe it should be called Chinese battle swordsmanship 8-)
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:11 am

I'm old school fist, at this point I can only go schoolyard, it didn't happen if you have no video 8-)
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:41 pm

There will be a video. It will probably be the last one I make in China.

My master's swordmanship is about surviving an attack by an armed opponent, not about forms or LARPing. I'll take practical skills any day. We have trained with wooden swords as well and the feel is different, but the techniques are the same. Eventually I'll upgrade to real swords and do test-cutting, but there is no replacement for fencing. The best way to learn how to fight with a sword and not die is like this.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:36 pm

Wanderingdragon wrote:Oh well continue practicing what you practice. But I think you should consider calling it battle sword or something that illustrates the total commitment to the unorthodox training you've taken up. -shrug- Chinese swordsmanship is quite misleading.

Many, many years ago I learned/practiced a sword(Jian) form I liked it very much but not as much that I kept it in my 'repertoire', actually regret that nowadays. When I was 6-8yrs old I was put in a fencing school, and even at such young age basically all practice was partner sparring practice. I don't know much about Chinese 'swordsmanship', what does the training regime of 'orthodox' Chinese swordsmanship look like? I get the impression that Maarten's teachers approach seem sensible.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:13 am

As you know, Trick, fighting in swordmanship is highly unorthodox..
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