Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:04 pm

Peacedog wrote:Scott Rodell is probably the leading Chinese swordsmanship practitioner in the US.

He trained in the 1980s in China in the Yang system. He has skill and runs a jian fighting league in the US.

He can be found here: https://www.grtc.org

I'm sure he could answer any questions you have regarding equipment.

The little sword work I learned with a jian closely resembled late medieval broadsword technique.

Interestingly a lot of translations exist regarding this kind of thing in the West and might be worth reading up on.

Yes, I think that there can only be so many ways to use a cut and thrust sword. Interesting. I ran into his work many years ago and he seems legit. Can't find any fencing videos, though..
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:08 pm

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:The fencing that we do is a lot more violent, since all of us have trained unarmed fighting for many years. We really go for the kill. We currently don't have much protection and use heavy, rigid foam swords.


I have really no idea why you ask about a traditional weapon like the jian when you have absolutely no interest in learning real authentic swordplay. :P

I have no idea about "a lot more violent" . I of course have not been in a real sword duel not even witnessed one and hope I will never be doing it. As Bao mentioned, when one practice with a sword,forms or other solo exercises it is imortant to understand and respect the sword, so also when sparring with practice swords. A real sword is a very sharp tool and this should be in ones mind when sparring, to exercise a high level of understanding of distance and timing is of outmost important.

Even in ancient times people trained with practise swords to learn the techniques safely and later upgrade to proper swords and increase the intensity. Bao is getting worked up over nothing. Our fencing is competition based, so no one wants to lose points. We almost never just fence for fun. It's always a bout with a winner and a loser. No one wants to be the loser.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:12 pm

Eric_H wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:Someone had their wrist seriously injured last week.. :P


I've heard a lot of good things about the impact gel armor, though haven't tried it myself. Might be worth it to try a pair of gloves to see if it can save a wrist next time:

https://www.zoombang.com/product/max-coverage-gloves/

I think that we actually have a stack of those lying around. Haven't had a chance to try them out. Personally, I think it's overkill for our training swords. I think the person that got injured was unlucky or did something stupid. I wasn't there. This week every one bought a wrist support strap. It loops around the thumb. My thumb/hand/wrist area was beginning to be over-exerted from daily training. It has really helped so far.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:28 pm

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Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:30 pm

johnwang wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote: I really like the first one. We aren't doing any forms.

The 1st training is used to develop skill in 0.46 - 1.00 in the 1st clip. Since the 1st sword form that I have learned is a 2 men form. It's easier to train individual drills. All my suggestion can be seen in these 2 clips.

In my systems, we have 6 sword forms but I have only learned 2, the 三才對剑 and 昆吾锏 (I did not learn 青萍劍). Today, it's quite sad to see that most people just treat sword training as dancing. The application gradually disappear from sword training. I was glad that my teacher taught me the 2 men form first.




The first video is very interesting. We call that circular movement 缠剑. I really like your idea of how to train it. We haven't really started training it yet.

Actually, I have changed my mind. I've decided to train the sabre instead - specifically the Tangdao or Yanmaodao. The techniques are similar, but the Tangdao is less fragile, due to the thicker back of the blade and there are also techniques where one utilises it. The reason that I was going with the Jian is because I had only seen wooden and replica Jian for sale. Raven Studios makes a good-looking Tangdao, so at least that's covered. Hopefully I can find a proper replica like those that Cold Steel makes for fencing one day. I feel that the later sabres that were only designed for cutting are a lot less interesting in use.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:35 pm

Bao wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:
Bao wrote:
I have really no idea why you ask about a traditional weapon like the jian when you have absolutely no interest in learning real authentic swordplay. :P

And I have no idea where you got that notion from, since I didn't state that anywhere... :-\


The things you've described seems to be more in line with the use of broadsword and staff or cane and similar. The jian is not designed to be used in the same way you use a Dao, so if you are interested in traditional weaponry, I think you would get much more out of dao practice or similar than from the jian.

The Tangdao kind of has the best of both worlds, which is what my master learned. I thought that I was going to have to make the wooden swords on my own, so I changed it to Jian, as their usage is so similar.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:35 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:
Actually, I have changed my mind. I've decided to train the sabre instead - specifically the Tangdao or Yanmaodao. The techniques are similar, but the Tangdao is less fragile, due to the thicker back of the blade and there are also techniques where one utilises it. The reason that I was going with the Jian is because I had only seen wooden and replica Jian for sale. Raven Studios makes a good-looking Tangdao, so at least that's covered. Hopefully I can find a proper replica like those that Cold Steel makes for fencing one day. I feel that the later sabres that were only designed for cutting are a lot less interesting in use.

Do a Musashi thing, cut a wooden sword out of an oar 8-) In Dalian there was a very good knife and sword shop. I bought a 'bokken' there, used it in my Xingyidao practice and for the bokken/jo training I learned back when I practiced Aikido. "Bokken"-Japanese wood practice sword made of oak
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:51 pm

Ok we talking about CMA here, but blades are blades? Check ot some HEMA groups (no forms,most sparring exercise), apparently there are som groups in Shanghai. https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders/
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:43 am

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Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:56 am

I said that we are a lot more violent. I didn't say that we force the techniques. I have to disagree, though. The techniques require force just like anything else, which is why we train the basics over and over again, along with a lot of foundation exercises to improve strength specific to sword fighting. After a while it looks easy, but there is still strength there. When the techniques reach their target there should be enough force to cut through. It's not just wildly swinging foam swords. The inside of the swords is heavy PVC pipes. The foam is hard too. They aren't springy or whippy at all. Getting thrusted by one could potentially lead to serious injury.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:01 am

Trick wrote:Ok we talking about CMA here, but blades are blades? Check ot some HEMA groups (no forms,most sparring exercise), apparently there are som groups in Shanghai. https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders/

That's pretty cool. There are two clubs near where my parents live and where I'll be going after I leave China. I can make use of the same armour, at least. I'd rather learn a sword art from a living master than books, though I am interested in the European stuff as well.

Since I don't have access to real swords, getting a wooden sword with the correct dimensions, weight and balance is important to me. I have made a training device from bamboo that I cut behind my house already, which will do for now.. :P
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:09 am

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Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:04 am

As I mentioned before, the techniques are more for Tangdao and the like. You must be amazing to cut without force. I suppose if you train in slow motion then that would be the case..
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:31 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I'd rather learn a sword art from a living master than books, though I am interested in the European stuff as well.

The living masters of Chinese swordsmanship probably all just learned from forms practice and are now beginning to experiment with free sparring just as HEMA does, probably got inspired from HEMA and Kendo, but in Europe there still is a tradition of "live" sword dueling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:25 am

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Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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