Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:44 am

I said that they have the best of both worlds, not that they are identical.

It's not about forcing through it, but there is force involved. And technique. You said NO force is involved. That is impossible.

Once again, Bao, you prove that you are an arrogant prick. Why do you even comment on here? Kindly remove yourself from my thread.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:49 am

Trick wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I'd rather learn a sword art from a living master than books, though I am interested in the European stuff as well.

The living masters of Chinese swordsmanship probably all just learned from forms practice and are now beginning to experiment with free sparring just as HEMA does, probably got inspired from HEMA and Kendo, but in Europe there still is a tradition of "live" sword dueling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing

A lot of them probably did, but my master was taught by several masters, some of whom could fight with their weapons. One was the body guard of the vice president of the Guomindang's wife. He went to a remote village in Shanxi to learn staff fighting and brought three goats as his tuition fee. That was a lot of money at the time!

I think that some may have been inspired by Western fencing and Kendo to an extent, but HEMA are still all but unheard of.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:06 am

...

As you wish...
Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bob on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:21 am

Useful source


http://www.journalofasianmartialarts.co ... detail-525

Basic Chinese Sword Training and Practice

The focus of this article is on basic training in the traditional Chinese sword methods of Liu Yunqiao as transmitted to Tony Yang. This article outlines some of the most famous sword forms in history, Liu Yunqiao’s lineage, solo and two-person practice, as well as details on fundamental techniques and their combinations.
SOURCE: Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Vol. 13 No. 3 (2004): 26 pages.

Chinese Swords: An Ancient Tradition and Modern Training

The Chinese double-edged straight sword (jian), the “gentleman of weapons,” is the focus of this e-book. There are a growing number of people interested in this fascinating weapon, its history, and its use. For your convenience, this anthology assembles the best articles on this subject as published in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts.
Chapters 1 and 2 were written by Dr. Richard Pegg, a scholar of Asian studies and art curator with over thirty years of studies in the martial arts. With sound academic and practical experience in swordsmanship, Dr. Pegg writes here on ancient Chinese bronze swords and also on the parallels of Chinese calligraphy and swordplay. The analysis and presentation of the calligraphic illustrations give insight into the physical execution of sword movement. These superb presentations provide a perspective that is useful for understanding the technical and historical significance of the sword arts in China.

In the next chapter, Tony Yang, Andy Lianto, and Robert Figler give an excellent overview of the fundamentals of training with the straight sword. This article outlines some of the most famous sword forms in history, Liu Yunqiao’s lineage, solo and two-person practice, as well as details on fundamental techniques and their combinations. For all intents and purposes, the practice and perfection of these fundamentals make one a master of the sword. Over 140 photos are used just in this chapter to illustrate the techniques.

Stephan Berwick’s chapter details the history and practice of a famous straight sword system, the Qingping (Green Duckweed). The study meshes Chinese- and English-sourced research and a revealing interview with Lu Junhai—the grandmaster of this unique sword system. The interview is conducted by America’s senior Qingping disciples, Reza Momenan and Hon Lee.

If you are a serious practitioner of the Chinese double-edged straight sword and have an interest in its history and techniques, you’ll enjoy each chapter included in this anthology. May it be a handy reference work for information as well as a source of inspiration for actual sword practice.

Author Bio:
Stephan Berwick, M.A., has a Chinese martial arts background spanning over thirty years. Bow Sim Mark was his early mentor. He went on to work for martial arts Hong Kong film director Yuen Wo Ping (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and The Matrix). Upon returning to the US, Mr. Berwick began intensive Chen taiji training under the celebrated Chen stylist Ren Guangyi, and also closely mentored by top members of taiji’s founding family, the Chens of Chenjiagou. Mr. Berwick holds an M.A. in international law from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University in cooperation with Harvard University. http://truetaichi.com

Robert A. Figler, Ph.D., is an associate professor of management at the University of Akron and teaches courses in human resource management and international business. His area of international specialty is China and he has been involved in Chinese martial arts for over twenty-five years. He is a disciple of Tony Yang and trains primarily in baguazhang, bajiquan/piguazhang, and Chen-style taijiquan.

Chris Hsu, Ph.D., is currently an assistant instructor at the Jow Ga Shaolin Institute, specializing in Yang taijiquan. He also recently worked as a Chinese interpreter, after spending twenty-three years at the Department of Defense as a human resources psychologist. Mr. Hsu holds a Ph.D. in industrial psychology from North Carolina State University.

Hon K. Lee, M.S., M.B.A., and dipl. acupuncture, is director of the Jow Ga Shaolin Institute. He first learned Jow Ga gongfu from Dean Chin and Hoy K. Lee in Washington, DC, and later trained with masters throughout the Far East. He is a Jow Ga disciple under Chan Mancheung, as well as a Mizong and Qingping sword disciple under Lu Junhai. He learned Cha-style weaponry from Chen Enyi, a senior disciple of the late Cha grandmaster Ma Jinbiao. He also practices traditional Chinese medicine and is owner of the Sports Edge Acupuncture Clinic in Herndon, Virginia. Mr. Lee is a former marine officer and foreign affairs specialist, holding an M.S. in national security strategy from the National War College, an M.B.A. from the NY Technical Institute, and a professional diploma in acupuncture.

Andy Lianto is a commercial photographer, filmmaker, and martial arts instructor. He has taken classes in filmmaking at New York University. He has competed nationally and won gold medals in bajiquan, piguazhang, and Praying Mantis, and is a disciple of Tony Yang.

Reza Momenan, Ph.D., is chief instructor of the Jow Ga Shaolin Institute and a founding member and official of the Northern America Chinese Martial Arts Federation. He started his martial arts training in the mid-1970s in Shotokan karate and started Jow Ga training under the supervision of the late Dean Chin in 1979. Mr. Momenan became a disciple of Lu Junhai, studying Mizong and Qingping sword. Mr. Momenan is the founder of the Chinese Boxing Academy at the George Washington University and head of the Chinese Martial Arts Club at the National Institutes of Health (NIH). He holds a Ph.D. in medical engineering and serves as a research scientist at the NIH.

Richard A. Pegg, Ph.D., has a Ph.D. in East Asian art history from Columbia University. During his more than thirty years of martial arts study he has focused on Shotokan karate, aikido, and taijiquan, with an emphasis on swords. He has been studying with Harvey Sober since 1978. Dr. Pegg is currently curator of Asian art for the MacLean Collection in Illinois. His recent publication is The MacLean Collection: Chinese Ritual Bronzes.

Tony Yang is the instructor and owner of the Wu Tang Center for Martial Arts in Akron, Ohio. He began his training in traditional Praying Mantis at age six under his Uncle, Wang Shujin, and later became a disciple of Su Yuchang. Su then introduced Tony to Liu Yunqiao and Yang became a disciple, following him on a daily basis for eight years. Tony’s primary training is in bajiquan/piguazhang, bagua, Six Harmony Praying Mantis, mizongyi, xingyi, longfist, Yang and Chen taijiquan styles, and numerous weapons.

Product Specifications:
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Ancient Chinese Bronze Swords in the MacLean Collection, by Richard A. Pegg, Ph.D.
Chinese Sword and Brush Masters of the Tang Dynasty (618–906), by Richard A. Pegg, Ph.D.
Basic Chinese Sword Training and Practice, by Tony Yang, Andy Lianto, and Robert A. Figler, Ph.D.
Qingping Straight Sword: The Last Remaining Chinese Sword System?, by Stephan Berwick, M.A.; Trans. C. Hsu and X.Y. Dong
• Books are "print-on-demand". We send orders to an Amazon.com company to print and mail to customers. They usually ship within a week.
Last edited by Bob on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:21 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I said that we are a lot more violent.When the techniques reach their target there should be enough force to cut through. It's not just wildly swinging foam swords

To go in with a 'cut opponent in half' mindset is just unnessesary macho stuff. I think if it was a real duel against a skillful fencer that mindset would be disastrous. Of course strength is needed to be able to hold on to the sword, but the real strength would be the sharpness of ones mind and the sharpness of ones sword. Anyway foamsword fencing looks kind of fun http://www.bilibili.com/video/av3750055 ... 0036265209
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby .Q. on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:26 am

Never used this, but EPW sounds like an interesting thing to try:
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby johnwang on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:28 pm

Do you want to spend the rest of your life to

1. learn many sword forms and be able to win in form competition? or
2. develop a simple skill that you can use your sword to cut through an apple in the air?

I prefer 2 > 1. IMO, too much weapon form training and not enough basic skill training is the issue for modern CMA.

Last edited by johnwang on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:48 pm

Nice party trick but if it only consists of staying in one place and attacking an innocent Apple give me forms every day
However if it is part on a complete iadio system that is a different matter
With any blade stepping and evasion is more important than with the empty hand
That is unless you are fighting an apple
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:54 pm

Trick wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I said that we are a lot more violent.When the techniques reach their target there should be enough force to cut through. It's not just wildly swinging foam swords

To go in with a 'cut opponent in half' mindset is just unnessesary macho stuff. I think if it was a real duel against a skillful fencer that mindset would be disastrous. Of course strength is needed to be able to hold on to the sword, but the real strength would be the sharpness of ones mind and the sharpness of ones sword. Anyway foamsword fencing looks kind of fun http://www.bilibili.com/video/av3750055 ... 0036265209


Watch the sword fight in the movie rob Roy
The Englishman with his rapier slicing the Scot with his heavy Claymore to pieces
I look at all the test cutting with the Jian and just see people with the wrong idea
Test cutting is fine for a two handed hacking weapon like the katana or dao
The Jian is a weapon of finesse
A ninja doesn't storm the front gates
Last edited by wayne hansen on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby johnwang on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:24 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Nice party trick but if it only consists of staying in one place and attacking an innocent Apple give me forms every day
However if it is part on a complete iadio system that is a different matter
With any blade stepping and evasion is more important than with the empty hand
That is unless you are fighting an apple

What else do you need besides to develop

- calm mind,
- sharp eye sight,
- speed,
- accuracy,

through the sword training?
Last edited by johnwang on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:11 pm

In combat with blades movement and defence don't go astray
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Ozguorui on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Katana is not a "two handed hacking weapon". Better description - "3 foot razor blade".
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:58 pm

I was referring to test cutting which I have mainly seen done with two hands in a hacking motion
Yes it is sharp
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:13 pm

.Q. wrote:Never used this, but EPW sounds like an interesting thing to try:

With our training swords it is also possible to bind. Do you know where to buy these?
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:16 pm

Trick wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:I said that we are a lot more violent.When the techniques reach their target there should be enough force to cut through. It's not just wildly swinging foam swords

To go in with a 'cut opponent in half' mindset is just unnessesary macho stuff. I think if it was a real duel against a skillful fencer that mindset would be disastrous. Of course strength is needed to be able to hold on to the sword, but the real strength would be the sharpness of ones mind and the sharpness of ones sword. Anyway foamsword fencing looks kind of fun http://www.bilibili.com/video/av3750055 ... 0036265209

You're misinterpreting. I'm not talking about cutting the person in half, just damaging the target, a wrist for example, enough that their attack is stopped short.

I liked the energy of the bloke in that video. The others looked like deer caught in headlights, though.. :P
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