Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:31 am

If you do not find function in form there are only two reasons, you do not practice, and two , more common today, your form Is not real. Much today is simple movement, health exercise, yet if you know swordsmanship you will recognize functional technique in all form.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:38 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:If you do not find function in form there are only two reasons, you do not practice, and two , more common today, your form Is not real. Much today is simple movement, health exercise, yet if you know swordsmanship you will recognize functional technique in all form.

If I understand you right "orthodox" Chinese swordsmanship consist of just forms practice? Although I in person have seen one of Li Yaxuan's students preform Jian partner exercises that have aTaiji push hand feeling to it but not really sparring. A little of an mystery why western and Japanese fencing but not Chinese swordsmanship developed in to "safe" sparring combative fencing.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Bao on Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:38 am

Trick wrote:..."orthodox" Chinese swordsmanship consist of just forms practice? Although I in person have seen one of Li Yaxuan's students preform Jian partner exercises that have aTaiji push hand feeling to it but not really sparring. A little of an mystery why western and Japanese fencing but not Chinese swordsmanship developed in to "safe" sparring combative fencing.


Not addressed to Maarten or meant as a reply for Trick: There are two-man exercises with swords, "sparring" exercises etc. But even Li Yaxuan understood the weight of real swords, how the balance point of the swords affects the strength and weakness of it, where on the sword you can use to cut, where on the sword you use to slice and how to stab. There are all different for different types of sword. If you don't understand the prerequisites for each unique weapon and how to apply the techniques with real weapons against different surfaces, every sparring attempt with wood or foam swords will just be a vanity fantasy act.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:46 am

More simply, you have to study swordsmanship before you can practice swardsmanship, so hitting the tree with a stick is not
Practice if you're only banging, same same with any sparring, even empty hand. An example Colin Mac Gregor has been bangin for a long time, but found that he needed to learn to box before trying to box a fighter. Bang sticks, foam, rods, blunt swords wood swords all day, a true swordsman will cut you up.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:26 pm

You have got it right there
I have taught a couple of people the sword recently
Both had over 20 years training and both expressed the fact that they thought it was beyond them
The subtlety ,balance and nature of the sword is mysterious
Anyone who doesn't think it is ha sent been taught the real thing
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:02 am

Wanderingdragon wrote: Bang sticks, foam, rods, blunt swords wood swords all day, a true swordsman will cut you up.

How does a modern day fencer(swordsman) verify his fencing skill? Who are the "true swordsmen" in today's world/society?
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:18 am

How dare any of you presume that just because we practise fencing, that we aren't also learning all of these things? Can we stop with the assumptions? I've had long talks at my master's house about keeping it as real as possible, whilst not ignoring safety [entirely]. We have a real Jian and are getting a real Miaodao soon. That will change my perspective about what works and what doesn't and what needs to be modified. Still, if someone hands me a sword, stick or umbrella today I'd wager that I'll fare much better than a pretend swordsman that only slices at air and straw.

This month we are learning from my master's Gongfu brother. He was Sanda champion of the province multiple times and fencing with him has been a reality check. His speed, accuracy, footwork, reaction time etc. put all Kenjutsu and Kendo that I've seen to shame. ALL. I know that that's high praise, but well-placed. When I asked him if he does any forms he laughed in my face and continued to kick my arse. I suspect I'll have the bruises to prove it over the coming weeks. It's all foundation training, partner drills and fencing and forms are just a guide to help you memorise the curriculum.

Also, not once have we hit trees with sticks. But if my master tells us to I'm sure that he'll have a fucking good reason and I'll do it because he can fight and has put most of what he teaches to use, including aspects of weapon-fighting.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:40 am

[quote
How does a modern day fencer(swordsman) verify his fencing skill? Who are the "true swordsmen" in today's world/society?[/quote]

How does one avoid a straight line?, how does one realize the course of direction i.e. where the sword will go? The answer to these questions will indicate your sword knowledge.
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:36 pm

Wanderingdragon wrote:[quote
How does a modern day fencer(swordsman) verify his fencing skill? Who are the "true swordsmen" in today's world/society?


How does one avoid a straight line?, how does one realize the course of direction i.e. where the sword will go? The answer to these questions will indicate your sword knowledge.[/quote]
Well in the today's world my guess is through fencing sparring. Of course we can not get the in dept experience of fencing as the medieval knights or battle field dragoons, the "best"/closest we can do today is to spar with protective equipment? This may rage from simple attack/parry-attack, to free competitive sparring. Now as I said I like play Chinese sword forms, but that does not make me a modern day swordsman.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:54 am

Those questions can only be answered with a blade! How is that any different than unarmed fighting? All the form repetitions and theories won't save your life in a real fight, whether armed or unarmed..
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:41 am

Haha ;D , these are simplicities that one should understand long before ever stepping foot towards contact in any form empty hand or armed. Even a child learns this in the simple game of tag
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:11 am

I think you need to lay off the Kool-Aid, mate.. Try fencing some time. Try it against someone tough with zero experience. See if you can "survive" without losing a hand, leg, head or getting stabbed to death. It's a lot harder in against flesh and blood than against air.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:31 am

Yes you are right.
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:07 am

Wanderingdragon wrote:Even a child learns this in the simple game of tag
Depends on the neighborhood I guess. As a kid we preferred "fencing"(Errol Flynn like) with wooden sticks that we broke of from some tree, or shooting "arrows" at each other with homemade bows. Those old Robin Hood movies was great inspiration. Nowadays kids play with real guns(tragic) It seem not long now till the real 'long knives' will come back in use
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Re: Anyone do Chinese swordmanship?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:40 pm

Then you would have fit right in in my neighborhood, when vacant lots were turned into parks, they dug a hole and framed it to pour cement, we took turns sitting on the frame while two went into the pit with sword in hand, sticks, old lumber, I preferred a good sized tree branch that fit my grip, easier to find a balance point, and we played gladiator, personally I loved staying in the pit as I saw the pretend ceasars turn their thumbs down to the loser, which meant I got to give them three whacks on the thigh with my mighty tree branch gladius, you see I seldom lost ;D. But to avoid a straight line Tag is enough to learn
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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