Internal Power follow up

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Internal Power follow up

Postby KEND on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:32 am

After posting various essays on the martial aspects recently I have turned my attention to medical Qigong but something turned up that may be of interest to the martial minded. The healing sounds is a popular Qigong method where certain sounds are said to vibrate the organs or area around the organs, increasing blood flow and affecting the EM fields in the body. In Hsing Yi ['mind fist] I found [as enunciated in previous essays] that connecting the nervous system circuits that control expansion of the abdominal , chest and skull cavities enables a 'thought[expanding skull cavity] expands chest and abdomen. Another method I have found is the use of a consonant or vowel. The famous 'kiai used by karate practitioners has 'K' which expands the chest and transmits a shock wave to the hand.'W' on the other hand expands the abdomen and 'M' the forehead
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:40 pm

If you want to understand sound/meridian/organ Hung Gars iron wire kune is not a bad place to start
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby windwalker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:39 pm

some might also find this interesting

six healing sounds not something I practiced
did learn what was called Yi Zhi Chan.
long ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMSnXlsuoGQ

different movement / approach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMHHhxwlt4
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:59 pm

Can you tell me a little about the first clip with the girl
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:05 pm

KEND wrote: The famous 'kiai used by karate practitioners has 'K' which expands the chest and transmits a shock wave to the hand.

Kiai is just the name of the 'spirit' yell/shout
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 pm

Kotodama - word/sound spirit, is said to be in the foundation of Aikido. "Kototama or kotodama is also fundamental to Japanese martial arts, for instance, in the use of kiai. Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido and a student of Deguchi, used kototama as a spiritual basis for his teachings. William Gleason says Ueshiba "created aikido based on the kototama principle," and quotes him that "Aikido is the superlative way to practice the kototama. It is the means by which one realizes his true nature as a god and finds ultimate freedom."[2] Mutsuro Nakazono, a disciple of Ueshiba, wrote books on the importance of kototama in aikido." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotodama Aiki - Kiai
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby windwalker on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:36 am

wayne hansen wrote:Can you tell me a little about the first clip with the girl


Sorry no direct info, in looking for something on the six sounds I came across
her clip. The six sounds can be taught in a number of different ways
as I'm sure you know. Thought the taiji movement aspect was interesting.

While Chinese acupuncture and herbalism enjoy widespread popularity in the West, traditional Chinese exercise techniques - with the exception of qi gong - have rarely been taught outside China. This book is designed to change that. Written by Jun Wang, a doctor of Chinese medicine, Cultivating Qi draws on classic Chinese texts to introduce these body-mind healing exercises to Western readers.
http://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/display/ ... i?lid=2455

her site

Image


The earliest full descriptions of the Six Healing Breaths were found in Yang Xing Yan Ming Lu (“Notes on Nurturing One’s Nature and Extending Life”) by Tao Hongjing (456–536 C.E.), a Daoist scholar and practitioner of the Southern and Northern dynasties. For example, in the chapter Fuqi Liaobing (Absorbing Qi to Treat Illness) Tao Hongjing instructs: “If you have a wind-based condition, use chui.
If you have a heat-based condition, use hu. If you feel emotional agitation, use xi. If you have distension, use he to descend Qi. If you have stagnation to remove, use xu. If you are exhausted or fatigued, use si.”

Each of the six sounds was not only applied to treat a specific ailment but also associated with one of the internal organs—Heart, Triple Energizer, Liver, Spleen, Lung, and Kidney.

The correspondence between the Six Healing Breaths and the six internal organs, as well as the sequence of the sounds, was modified by later scholars. Consensus was gradually reached on the different versions during the Ming dynasty (fourteenth century) in the work of Leng Qian. He summarized the Six Healing Breaths in a poem entitled “The Therapeutic Song of Four Seasons”

in his book Xiuling Yaozhi. Following is the “Song of the Four Seasons,” which is still inspiring and important for modern Qigong practitioners:
chunxu ming mu mu fu gan
xia ri he xin huo zi xian
qiu si ding shou jin fei run
dong shui shui wang kan gong an
san jiao chang xia xi chu re
si ji hu pi tu hua can
qie ji chu sheng wen liang er
qi gong you sheng bao shen dan
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby yeniseri on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:55 am

Trick wrote:Kotodama - word/sound spirit, is said to be in the foundation of Aikido. "Kototama or kotodama is also fundamental to Japanese martial arts, for instance, in the use of kiai. Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido and a student of Deguchi, used kototama as a spiritual basis for his teachings. William Gleason says Ueshiba "created aikido based on the kototama principle," and quotes him that "Aikido is the superlative way to practice the kototama. It is the means by which one realizes his true nature as a god and finds ultimate freedom."[2] Mutsuro Nakazono, a disciple of Ueshiba, wrote books on the importance of kototama in aikido." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotodama Aiki - Kiai


Ueshiba incorporated Shinto into aikido as part of his spiritual awakening and a continuance of that consciousness. It seems that he was part of the few whose vision transcended martial principles and concepts. Kotodama ends up being a personal journey since many (the rest) do not/did not see the spiritual vision of Ueshiba or, a desire to live that spiritual vision.
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:42 am

windwalker wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:Can you tell me a little about the first clip with the girl


Sorry no direct info, in looking for something on the six sounds I came across
her clip. The six sounds can be taught in a number of different ways
as I'm sure you know. Thought the taiji movement aspect was interesting.

While Chinese acupuncture and herbalism enjoy widespread popularity in the West, traditional Chinese exercise techniques - with the exception of qi gong - have rarely been taught outside China. This book is designed to change that. Written by Jun Wang, a doctor of Chinese medicine, Cultivating Qi draws on classic Chinese texts to introduce these body-mind healing exercises to Western readers.
http://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/display/ ... i?lid=2455

her site

Image


The earliest full descriptions of the Six Healing Breaths were found in Yang Xing Yan Ming Lu (“Notes on Nurturing One’s Nature and Extending Life”) by Tao Hongjing (456–536 C.E.), a Daoist scholar and practitioner of the Southern and Northern dynasties. For example, in the chapter Fuqi Liaobing (Absorbing Qi to Treat Illness) Tao Hongjing instructs: “If you have a wind-based condition, use chui.
If you have a heat-based condition, use hu. If you feel emotional agitation, use xi. If you have distension, use he to descend Qi. If you have stagnation to remove, use xu. If you are exhausted or fatigued, use si.”

Each of the six sounds was not only applied to treat a specific ailment but also associated with one of the internal organs—Heart, Triple Energizer, Liver, Spleen, Lung, and Kidney.

The correspondence between the Six Healing Breaths and the six internal organs, as well as the sequence of the sounds, was modified by later scholars. Consensus was gradually reached on the different versions during the Ming dynasty (fourteenth century) in the work of Leng Qian. He summarized the Six Healing Breaths in a poem entitled “The Therapeutic Song of Four Seasons”

in his book Xiuling Yaozhi. Following is the “Song of the Four Seasons,” which is still inspiring and important for modern Qigong practitioners:
chunxu ming mu mu fu gan
xia ri he xin huo zi xian
qiu si ding shou jin fei run
dong shui shui wang kan gong an
san jiao chang xia xi chu re
si ji hu pi tu hua can
qie ji chu sheng wen liang er
qi gong you sheng bao shen dan


I thought that was the Yi Si Di you mentioned
Koto drama was something I learned when I practiced macrobiotics
I never found it really lead anywhere
However when I was initiated into the medical Buddha sect by zapped tulku rinpoche I was taught a mantra that I found quite useful
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby KEND on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:03 pm

I learnt the healing sounds years ago as part of the Shaolin system, it was done in a horse stance. Later when I became more familiar with body energetics I found that the sounds caused a certain light tension in the vicinity of the specified organ, other combinations of vowels and consonants also do the trick. The sound brings awareness and energy to the area. In the video it appears to have become taicheed, Movement also brings attention to the areas, for example drilling or twisting movement brings attention to the kidneys, I didn't check the movements on the video to examine this. In the kiai bit, there are several sounds that will cause the chest to expand and lend a shock effect to a punch [curiously enough the Chinese for 'kill' is one of them]. Re the iron wire form, I talked recently to Carl Albright an old friend who is a long time Hung Ga practitioner and he showed me an advanced version which as I suspected was more to do with energy production [qigong] than MA
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby windwalker on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:46 pm

@ken,

Didn't Carl Albright switch to mantis a long while back I seem to remember his name associated with Northern mantis.
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:13 pm

Even though I never practiced the iron wire kune or any other hung gar for that matter
I was shown its reasoning and how it affected the organs and meridians
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby willie on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:55 pm

I don't really understand the connection of this thread with internal power.
The Kia used in karate just makes the practitioner tired, a very bad habit.
If you hold a long exhalation which expels all your air, you will lose power.
This is why a boxer conserves his breath. You will hear small exhalations which are timed to combinations instead.
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:41 pm

willie wrote:I don't really understand the connection of this thread with internal power.
The Kia used in karate just makes the practitioner tired, a very bad habit.
If you hold a long exhalation which expels all your air, you will lose power.
This is why a boxer conserves his breath. You will hear small exhalations which are timed to combinations instead.

The 'use' of spirit yell(kiai) of course is not used consiously to enhance power to ones strikes or similar, it supposed to come naturally/spontaneously when 'highly spirited'. But "kiai" does not necessarily show/come out as a yell, it supposedly can manifest in the eyes- "eye of the tiger" kind of
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Re: Internal Power follow up

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:12 am

The Kiai is most popular in tennis today
If it drained their energy they wouldn't be doing it hundreds of times each game.
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