3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby willie on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:13 pm

robert wrote:
willie wrote:Calligraphy is actually 2D because the paper is flat. The concept has to do with 3D moves such as S-Line.
It could appear as relatively harmless flowing movements. It also could be the extreme beginning or ending
of either Yin or Yang which expresses power in a non-linear fashion.

As Wayne pointed out we live in a 3D world. Calligraphy is 3D. Many Chinese brushes are tapered and by moving the brush closer to the paper or away from the paper you change the thickness of the line. You have to lift the brush off the paper or all the lines would be connected.

Image

The end result is a 2D image, but the paper itself is 3D. If a person does silk reeling exercises/qigong their whole body is moving in 3 space.


Okay, I was speaking generally.
Next...
As Who pointed out? then there is no such thing as 2D.
Paper has a Z depth of .003". even the ink has a Z. Perhaps measured in mil thickness.
What I "Not Wayne" am talking about is "Intent" coupled together with "X,Y,Z motion. "All to a substantial degree."

The intent of the artist is to produce a 2D image on the "surface" of the paper. Even if he lowers his hand to produce a fatter line, The intent
remains the same "2D". What "I" and not "Wayne" would consider to be more like 3D would be to stack 1000 pieces of paper and drop the "Z" so that the brush
travels right through that piece of paper and then continue dropping "Z" until the very last page is reached.

Now the "image" is 3D. The "outcome" is 3D because the "intent" was 3D.
Last edited by willie on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby robert on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:40 pm

Dimension is a concept used in physics and mathematics and has nothing to do with intent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby willie on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:07 pm

robert wrote:Dimension is a concept used in physics and mathematics and has nothing to do with intent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension

If you can't figure out what I meant in that post after all that then perhaps you should seek a better teacher thank you
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby cloudz on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:31 am

ok please... someone help me out here.

Willie highlights something I was thinking about before the recent posts.. ( I wanted to see 2D and 3D side by side after Charles post about the village silk reeling vs. the Hong silk reeling) Earlier on in the thread the terms 2D and 3D were thrown around in relation to silk reeling movements. Now we seem to have arrived at saying because we are/live in 3D we don't do 2D movements anyway?

In my ignorance I just thought 2D was refering to drawing a typical circle in one plane, whilst 3D added another vector/ direction/ plane... uurrhhpphh.. perhaps ???

Charles or Robert, could one of you maybe post an example of 2D silk reeling and 3D silk reeling side to side by we can get a look at this difference that was discussed in a more concrete way maybe ?
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:00 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby charles on Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:07 am

cloudz wrote: I just thought 2D was refering to drawing a typical circle in one plane, whilst 3D added another vector/ direction/ plane...


That's what I mean.


Charles or Robert, could one of you maybe post an example of 2D silk reeling and 3D silk reeling side to side by we can get a look at this difference that was discussed in a more concrete way maybe ?



Village:
CXW and his explanation and, at 10:00, his demonstration of the basic single hand ("positive") circle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS5farj8Q2E

Chen Bing, we can re-use this previously posted video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrypEX0lVk

There are lots of videos of people doing more or less the same as above.

Hong:
Chen Zhonghua correction of "positive" circle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op24urhnXDs

CZH, basic circles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGUmmniUYis

Liu Chengde basic circle at 7:00:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaceK6WtOsg


The two are substantially different in their use - or sequencing, perhaps - of the body. From a martial perspective, what really matters is not what the practitioner feels or does within his or her own body, but what the opponent feels. On the receiving end, the two feel quite different. Whether one is "better" than the other is up to each to determine for him or her self. That's about all I'm going to say in comparing the two.
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby willie on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:10 am

I feel that this video is a very clear explanation of the actual purpose and application of taiji.
As the opponent issues a "somewhat" 2D movement, He softens and replies with a 3D counter.
Much like a spinning ball. Then add in a cam which loads the bows to create fajin.
Last edited by willie on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3D Silk Wrapping Model in Taijiquan

Postby robert on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:43 am

cloudz wrote:ok please... someone help me out here.

Willie highlights something I was thinking about before the recent posts.. ( I wanted to see 2D and 3D side by side after Charles post about the village silk reeling vs. the Hong silk reeling) Earlier on in the thread the terms 2D and 3D were thrown around in relation to silk reeling movements. Now we seem to have arrived at saying because we are/live in 3D we don't do 2D movements anyway?

In my ignorance I just thought 2D was refering to drawing a typical circle in one plane, whilst 3D added another vector/ direction/ plane... uurrhhpphh.. perhaps ???

I didn't respond to the OP, I was waiting to see what was posted as 3D. I responded to Willie saying that calligraphy is 2D. That is wrong. The hand and arm moves in 3 space and that is an important aspect of calligraphy.
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