The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby Yeung on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:46 am

Medical Definition of Static posture:

Static posture: Any posture that is held for a long time. A static posture may result in fatigue and even injury over time.
(https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... ekey=25490)

I think it is important to understand the anatomical structure of zhan zhuang or static posture before introduce it as a kind of health exercise which might resulted in some sort of adverse effects.

I would argue that zhan zhuang is not static posture as certain self stretching movement by intention can become static according to the concept of "seeking quietness from motion". But any posture held for a long time may still have some sort of adverse effects, and then we sort of moving to the question of time. One of my associates suggested that 3 minutes is not too short and 3 hours is not to long. This will lead to the question on different kind of postures, and some will be difficult to do even for 3 minutes.

Maybe we can just focus on the Hun Yuan Posture for our discussion in this thread.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby windwalker on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:03 am

I like what this teacher has to say about standing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jDP3sfJCuI
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby yeniseri on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:57 am

Western science, despite its reductionist orientation (valuable at times and context) rightly sees zhanzhuang as static exercise since there is no outward physical movement as in running, lifting weights, etc so by all appearances no limb movement equals static. It does not mean that other physiological functions have stopped.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby johnwang on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Walking can give you more benefit than standing. Why do you want to stand if you can walk?

Regular brisk walking can help you: Maintain a healthy weight. Prevent or manage various conditions, including heart disease, high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. Strengthen your bones and muscles.

Walking Helps Lower Blood Pressure. May 30, 2008 (Indianapolis) -- If you have high blood pressure or are extremely overweight, walking may hold the key to improved heart health. ... A Korean study shows that walking just 40 minutes a day lowered blood pressure in people with hypertension.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:55 pm

I walk while standing and stand while walking.
I have people who ask me about teaching them
Most are walking around the park I train in
My response to them is don't waste your time just keep up the walking
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby Appledog on Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:24 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I walk while standing and stand while walking.
I have people who ask me about teaching them
Most are walking around the park I train in
My response to them is don't waste your time just keep up the walking


Yeah I hear you man. Cool stuff going on. Johnwang, would you say that driving gives more benefit than walking? Because it is faster.

I heard a story about Jiang Fa that he used to run alongside Chen Wang-Ting's horse as they went around the country. But if running was so great why did Chen Wang-Ting use a horse?

Hey funny story did you know I am #1 in the world right now for steps? Well, on Garmin anyway. I don't feel any different. Ok that's a lie I feel like crap. Go figure.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby Trick on Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:54 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I walk while standing and stand while walking.
I have people who ask me about teaching them
Most are walking around the park I train in
My response to them is don't waste your time just keep up the walking

Yes it's a waste of time for most people, actually all CMA is a waste of time for most people. When I began my traveling to China to study CMA and people here in China asked what kind of business i do here, the only answer I had back then was ' I'm here to learn Chinese gong fu', they answered me back 'you can't make any money from that? what a waste of your time'.....About standing practice for health, maybe...but JW advisce about take brisk walks sound more healthy
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby Trick on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Appledog wrote:[

I heard a story about Jiang Fa that he used to run alongside Chen Wang-Ting's horse as they went around the country. But if running was so great why did Chen Wang-Ting use a horse?
.

Could it be that Chen Wang-Ting already had done his fair share of running. If running wasn't a good exercise why did CWT then let his horse and Jiang Fa do it........( I have no idea who Chen WanTing & JiangFa is/was)
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby johnwang on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:20 pm

Appledog wrote:would you say that driving gives more benefit than walking? Because it is faster.

It has nothing to do with "speed". I strongly believe that if you walk 8 miles, when your walk the first 4 miles, your body start to detect your problem. During the 2nd 4 miles, your body start to fix your problem.

Of course it's better to do both ZZ and walking. The issue is if you only have 1 hour training time. Should you walk or stand?

IMO, walk > stand

XingYi Chuan is also called "Walking mind fist" ...Leg strength are trained from both ZZ and walking. ... XingYi master Tang Weilu's students used to walk 10 miles every morning, ...

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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby everything on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:44 am

Occasionally I try to play goalkeeper in a weird indoor soccer (football) played on a hockey rink-shaped field with smaller goals.

Most of the time you are "standing", trying to stay in an alert but relaxed ready state.

Occasionally you have to very suddenly move from a still posture to a very fast whole body move. I would say from a much more still posture than is typical in MA to a much faster whole body move than is typical in MA. So for illustration purposes, this is really an extreme example (mostly standing around, very rarely suddenly moving with literally whole body motion).

Zhan zhuang is quite helpful to learn to "stand" in the right mix of readiness/alertness/relaxation. You don't want to be "too alert" or "too relaxed". Walking and other forms of training don't really help in this way. Of course, technically, you need certain kinds of movements/jumping/reaching/etc., but those technical practices don't help in this way, either. It's easy to see why zhan zhuang offers something those things do not.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby johnwang on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:03 pm

If you think walking is too easy, you may try the "running punch". You will get great workout if you can do this for 1 hour non-stop.

Not trying to side track a ZZ thread. Just to compare which training will give you more health/combat benefit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxptvJlubY
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby Yeung on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:54 pm

But Zhan Zhuang is standing passively with pelvis and lumbar in alignment, sub occipital stretching, and diaphragmatic breathing, to generate a sensation of flow.
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby everything on Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:45 pm

Passive?
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Re: The Anatomy of Zhan Zhuang

Postby everything on Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:12 pm

walking the circle can be done as a walking zhan zhuang. perhaps combining some benefits.
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