the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Getting back to my original question--how would you put it together. If I was reframing the basic Hsing Yi forms it would contain the following: An opening form which contains all five elements , each with internal movements required to produce power at ming jing level [this could be performed as a separate exercise if you are pushed for time or in a small space. Stepping, shifting, turning involving basic inch step, angling step, zig zag and other stepping associated with 5 elements in 8 directions. Transitions between elements, initially using linear internal movements morphing into circular. Equal weight given to left and right hand and foot techniques. Include basic low kicks. Form to be asymmetric, with no repetitive patterns but with an internal rhythm[difficult] All movements done as if facing an imaginary opponent. Same form can be used in a 'health' mode with accent on breath, energy movement, soft and hard moves and intent

KEND wrote:Getting back to my original question--how would you put it together. If I was reframing the basic Hsing Yi forms it would contain the following: An opening form which contains all five elements , each with internal movements required to produce power at ming jing level [this could be performed as a separate exercise if you are pushed for time or in a small space. Stepping, shifting, turning involving basic inch step, angling step, zig zag and other stepping associated with 5 elements in 8 directions. Transitions between elements, initially using linear internal movements morphing into circular. Equal weight given to left and right hand and foot techniques. Include basic low kicks. Form to be asymmetric, with no repetitive patterns but with an internal rhythm[difficult] All movements done as if facing an imaginary opponent. Same form can be used in a 'health' mode with accent on breath, energy movement, soft and hard moves and intent

My usually "in private" XYQ practice I do five rows of each element and finish of with five rows of the element link form. I do this knit together as a "long form" done with an easy relaxed feeling, every element with five or six steps depending on what turn I chose to do. I also break up the element link form in a couple of small sequences that I do equally altering left and right side, these sequences is done quite in one spot I usually do these when I "prepare" breakfast in my small kitchen Its fun to experiment, but I do not put to much effort in to XYQ practice, I focus more on my basics in Hunyuan Taiji and Tongbei. Althought I like the "aggressiveness" of Xingyi footwork, so some times I focus more on Xingyiquan practice. What I choose to practice depend on my current mood. I occasionally go through Karate Kata's that I still remember weary well, and sometimes experiment to put "XYQ"in to that practice and vice versa, just as fun experiment. Who knows, maybe I come up with a super duper MA

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.

Cloud hands is only repeated 3 times
The question is how many times is it done on each of the 3

The way I learned the Fu Zhongwen variant of YTJQ cloud hands is done 5times in each of the repetitions. But in Li Yaxuan linage it's done 3times per repetition. Although cloud hand is an important part of TJQ its up to each how many or few to do.

Then how many repulse monkey

wayne hansen wrote:Then how many repulse monkey

As many as you like ....Was it in one of Robert Smith's book's? He writes that CMC never saw YCF do the whole TaijiForm, only that he preferred doing 'single whip' and 'repulse monkey' repeatedly?

You got that one a little wrong
He did static standing
Single whip and lift hands
Backfist parry punch for advancing and
Repulse monkey for retreating
I don't remember him saying he never saw YCF do the whole form
How did he learn the form then

wayne hansen wrote:You got that one a little wrong
He did static standing
Single whip and lift hands
Backfist parry punch for advancing and
Repulse monkey for retreating
I don't remember him saying he never saw YCF do the whole form
How did he learn the form then

Think it was mentioned in Smith's Masters & Methods book." How did he learn the form then" -Yes that is something that had me thinking too.

Trick wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:You got that one a little wrong
He did static standing
Single whip and lift hands
Backfist parry punch for advancing and
Repulse monkey for retreating
I don't remember him saying he never saw YCF do the whole form
How did he learn the form then

Think it was mentioned in Smith's Masters & Methods book." How did he learn the form then" -Yes that is something that had me thinking too.

One move at a time? Or from senior students? Maybe he learned it from the internet, like the rest of us...

wayne hansen wrote:Then how many repulse monkey

In Chen laojia yilu It should be the same number as cloud hands (cloud hands and repulse monkey should cover the same ground). That works for Yang long form as well. Practice space may be constrained so you can adjust the number accordingly.

If you look at the posture names for Chen laojia yilu Stepping Back and Whirling Arms (Repulse Monkey) and Cloud Hands are each listed once where they occur in the form, they don't specify a number of repetitions, although 3, 5, and 7 seem to be common.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_(Old_Frame,_First_Routine,_Lao_Jia_Yi_Lu)

Bhassler wrote:

Trick wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:You got that one a little wrong
He did static standing
Single whip and lift hands
Backfist parry punch for advancing and
Repulse monkey for retreating
I don't remember him saying he never saw YCF do the whole form
How did he learn the form then

Think it was mentioned in Smith's Masters & Methods book." How did he learn the form then" -Yes that is something that had me thinking too.

One move at a time? Or from senior students? Maybe he learned it from the internet, like the rest of us...

Yes could be that way. Smith was an CIA guy? those guys probably already had the Internet by then, and Smith let CMC take some sneak peaks while he surfed the net Maybe learning and knowing the essence of Taiji practice may not be in playing a long form or knowing how the postures are pussled together. Look at the forms of Chen Weiming, Li Yaxuan, Fu Zhongwen, Chu Guiting they all differ somewhat

I think the reason for the form sequence is pretty simple really.

For health it follows a sequence of opening and closing that pumps lymph around the body, massages the tissue and organs etc
For power it follows a sequence of opening and closing to develop HME force and 6 direction.
For tactics it follows a sequence of common pairs, these pairs are loops of useful combative actions.

This is why the form can successfully be broken down and trained in small loops and chunks without losing much IMO. The small chunk can be an open close that is focused on health, A power training exercise or a strategic combat loop.

I think repetition is the personal choice of the form creator, some may have experienced larger personal benefit for health, power or fighting in a certain set of moves, or loops, so repeated them. Much like the boxer with the favourite method etc.

thanks.

..." Why is TCC form put together a certain way?"
Don`t know,
we may know only successors answer/s/
This is question to ask forms creator
so
you may ask- why do you do yours form such way...

I think that we can take care of the physical and power aspects but part of the regimen should be, at least for older people. retaining the brain plasticity. Thus a longer more complex form which is asymmetric you cause more neuronal activity. Added to this it should be possible to have variations, doing the same form every day is not going to help the brain find new pathways