Our peripheral vision sucks

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:41 am

zrm wrote:
Bao wrote:So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy?


This book is is all about applying this concept to martial arts.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Liar-Cheat-Th ... B00QZCLBV4


Great tip! I will certainly take a look at it. Thanks!

Trick wrote:
marvin8 wrote:There was no mention of CMA in the OP. The discussion was in general on peripheral vision and magic/illusion. No one suggested, "CMA should have to ask a boxer."
"

Well it was asked:
So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy? ....And posted in: Xingyiquan-Baguazhang-Taijiquan forum


Exactly. These three styles all have their own fighting strategies. XY prefer to strike it's way straight through the guard, bagua tend to make more use of angles. And the Tai Chi ideal is to flow with the opponent's movements.

Some strategy, or much of tactics are the same of course, like feint low and go in to a high attack, or try to open up the front by attack from the sides.

When a magician do a card trick, to conceal a card or change positions from one hand to another, one hand will mask the other hands movement. The hand without a concealed card will use a bigger motion and the other hand that does the trick usually follow the other hand and body movement in as a natural manner as possible. Even if it looks passive, this is the hand that does the trick. Traditional Chinese fighting arts use very much the same strategy. One hand is more active and draws the attention, the other hand looks passive, as a non-threat. And when the opponent's attention is on the more active had the threat, the passive looking hand suddenly attacks from an unpredictable angle.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:34 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:
marvin8 wrote:There was no mention of CMA in the OP. The discussion was in general on peripheral vision and magic/illusion. No one suggested, "CMA should have to ask a boxer."
"

Well it was asked:
So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy? ....And posted in: Xingyiquan-Baguazhang-Taijiquan forum


Exactly. These three styles all have their own fighting strategies. XY prefer to strike it's way straight through the guard, bagua tend to make more use of angles. And the Tai Chi ideal is to flow with the opponent's movements.

All 3 of these fighting strategies are used in MMA, Boxing, etc., depending on the opponent/situation. A variety of strategies should be used to mix up offense and defense to remain unpredictable/deceptive.

Bao wrote:When a magician do a card trick, to conceal a card or change positions from one hand to another, one hand will mask the other hands movement. The hand without a concealed card will use a bigger motion and the other hand that does the trick usually follow the other hand and body movement in as a natural manner as possible. Even if it looks passive, this is the hand that does the trick. Traditional Chinese fighting arts use very much the same strategy. One hand is more active and draws the attention, the other hand looks passive, as a non-threat. And when the opponent's attention is on the more active had the threat, the passive looking hand suddenly attacks from an unpredictable angle.

This strategy is not exclusive to CMA. MMA, Boxing, etc., use this strategy along with others.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:10 am

I am not interested about what other styles do. I am asking about how to use it from an IMA perspective if you know a whole lot of other MA and boxing methods I am sure you could come up with examples on good practical use for IMA styles as well.
Last edited by Bao on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:23 am

marvin8 wrote:All 3 of these fighting strategies are used in MMA, Boxing, etc., depending on the opponent/situation. A variety of strategies should be used to mix up offense and defense to remain unpredictable/deceptive.


This strategy is not exclusive to CMA. MMA, Boxing, etc., use this strategy along with others.

I take it you are not interested in CMA and especially ICMA since you as it seem always bring up MMA, Boxing and etc. are those the sports you practice? Your profile does not say what your MA background is. Of course there will be similar strategies in all pugilistic arts since we all are kind of designed the same way.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:24 am

Bao wrote:I am not interested about what other styles do. I am asking about how to use it from an IMA perspective if you know a whole lot of other MA and boxing methods I am sure you could come up with examples on good practical use for IMA styles as well.


From a taiji perspective, this is part of split, splitting the attention, you see it all over the form, but maybe most evidently in raise hands. (The movement after single whip and before shoulder stroke) as the hands come engarde or attach the foot attacks. You can conceivably consider this a part of every single movement with stepping as each step is a functional kick/sweep leg technique.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby LaoDan on Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:08 am

There are at least two issues that this thread is addressing. One is peripheral visual awareness, and the other is multitasking.

As I understand it, peripheral visual awareness is much better at detecting movement than specific static details (like dots on the grid). The OP shows how limited our foveal/central vision is. But it is not really measuring peripheral visual awareness.

The dancing bear is an example of how poor we are at multitasking. We are assigned the task of counting the passes by the white team, and this occupies our attention such that the bear is missed. Equally difficult would be to ask someone to simultaneously count the passes by BOTH the white and black teams. We cannot multitask! Since we have two frontal lobes in our brains, we are capable of making either/or choices where our attention switches rapidly between two tasks (but not both simultaneously). While two simultaneous tasks are problematic, adding a third is essentially impossible to do, and research subjects tend to drop one task while trying to pay attention to the other two (and the quality of all tasks tends to suffer).

To take advantage of limitations of peripheral vision, do something to get the opponent to focus on something (so that they lose their “soft focus”). Intent focus on one place “narrows” peripheral visual awareness.

To take advantage of the inability to multitask, also get the opponent to pay attention to one thing, which allows one to attack with something else.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:26 am

Your comment reminded me of getting clobbered in an SCA melee.

This dude in a gladiator getup had a short sword and a Trident and a group of three people were advancing on him when I went to put the boot in.

He made a huge sweeping swing with the sword toward my face and missed so I moved in to whack him with mine, but as he missed the just kept going with the motion and twirled the Trident as he spun away from me and it just slammed into my head like a truckload of bricks from just behind and to the right.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:20 am

Bao wrote:I am not interested about what other styles do. I am asking about how to use it from an IMA perspective if you know a whole lot of other MA and boxing methods I am sure you could come up with examples on good practical use for IMA styles as well.

Well, you thanked zrm for the book referral that was done by a Filipino Martial Arts master of Eskrima. So, I didn't know you were "not interested about what other styles do," until now. The book looks good. I assume you can apply the concepts and strategies to any style, IMA or EMA.

The concepts and strategies from the videos I posted can be transferred to any IMA style or IMA fight. You can substitute your own power generation and techniques from your own IMA style, as different IMA styles may differ. Those were the only videos showing outside peripheral punches in actual fights, not demonstrations. I could not find any CMA videos explaining the same subject. That's why I posted those. I see peripheral visual awareness and deception/magic as a general topic.

In your own post, you described IMA strategies in general/universal terms such as, "strike it's way straight through the guard," "angles," "flow with the opponent's movements," and "when the opponent's attention is on the more active had the threat, the passive looking hand suddenly attacks from an unpredictable angle," which are used in external styles as well.

I will not post those type of videos anymore in this thread, as of your request. Although, I think it contributes to this thread. I have posted more IMA vidoes on this site, than EMA. When it comes to covering fighting strategy, it is hard to find IMA fighting videos. Of course I am interested in CMA, as I have been visiting this website for years and have an IMA/CMA background.
Last edited by marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:12 am

marvin8 wrote:I will not post those type of videos anymore in this thread, as of your request. Although, I think it contributes to this thread. I have posted more IMA vidoes on this site, than EMA. When it comes to covering fighting strategy, it is hard to find IMA fighting videos. Of course I am interested in CMA, as I have been visiting this website for years and have an IMA/CMA background.


I thought your answer was too generic, so I answered in a similar way. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. I also said:

"if you know a whole lot of other MA and boxing methods I am sure you could come up with examples on good practical use for IMA styles as well."

Of course I am interested in anything that could be translated into IMA. Please share anything you believe is relevant to the topic. 8-)
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Another thought today in line with this is the strikes based on the teacup exercises usually associated with bagua.

Those can be used from very odd angles in their blind spots.

Say like right hand Palm up to catch and guide their right to their left, your left attach to the elbow to gaurd and keep na, right hand goes back and around to strike at their right side.

Coming from the unexpected angle gives it extra impact imho
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Appledog on Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:42 am

Bao wrote:I thought your answer was too generic, so I answered in a similar way. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. I also said:

"if you know a whole lot of other MA and boxing methods I am sure you could come up with examples on good practical use for IMA styles as well."

Of course I am interested in anything that could be translated into IMA. Please share anything you believe is relevant to the topic. 8-)


Well bao, this is quite a brilliant topic actually, I liked your picture and your whodunnit video. Oftentimes it is so true that there is something there, that just cannot be seen, unless you are looking at it. If you are unaware that it is there in the first place you may never go to look for it and that way you will never find it. Interesting stuff
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:41 am

I suggested reading exercises to expand useful vision. It involves expanding foveal range.
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