Our peripheral vision sucks

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:53 am

My eyes are slow an untrustworthy I try to avoid relying on them wherever possible.

On a side note, there's a move Jet Li does in several films where he throws a left hand out to the edge of the other guys peripheral and splays the fingers out explosively with a little shake.

Other dude can't help but glance that way and then Jet nails him with a right.

Yeah it's a movie but I love that fuckin shot.

I like to put my hands up like in the classic Western guard squared off directly, then move em a little and keep them directly in front as I step around, and then you're in the beginning of the 'roll back' posture for a hip throw with as much or as little juice as you like on it.

Taijiquan is a mindfuck art. Playing with peripherals is just another tool in the arsenal IMHO
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:29 am

Bao wrote:I understand your points. But I still think that there is something about attention, focus and awareness. Maybe a person who has sparred a lot and has entered many competitions would have a different trained awareness than the common thug on the street?

Like these ones are other examples. When you focus strongly on one thing, other things happening outside your direct path of vision, or central vision. Some people are more easily fooled than others. Now you probably wont be fooled at all, but anyway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4

So what this means is that it is possible to attract attention to a certain movement, object etc and make a person less aware of what happens outside the central vision. If things happens very fast, a certain type of move might be enough to draw the attention so you can do something without the person even notice what's happening. This is what professional illusionists use all of the time. A person who understand what a magician do will see what's happening. Others who have no clue will be easily fooled.

I did miss the moonwalking bear. :) But, I don't believe this video is about peripheral vision. A good feint can fit that description. Or tell them their shoelace is untied. Maybe someone else has more "magical" ideas.

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Published on Nov 11, 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59HRT2xWlQc

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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby dspyrido on Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:27 pm

Bao wrote:So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy?


Through feints to expose the weakness & minimising the peripheral motion when bridging & attacking. Plus being aware of the time delay of switching focus and drawing attention.

Do the eyes deceive? Only if they are untrained & luckily many are which creates a wonderful opportunity to pepper anyone not doing something about this weakness.

But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby windwalker on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:24 pm

dspyrido wrote:
But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


not really, just ask people who've fought, fight a lot....or a practice thats geared towards
fighting. All will or should be able to address the question. Most never see what they get hit with.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby zrm on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:42 pm

Bao wrote:So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy?


This book is is all about applying this concept to martial arts.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Liar-Cheat-Th ... B00QZCLBV4
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:35 am

windwalker wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


not really, just ask people who've fought, fight a lot....or a practice thats geared towards
fighting
. All will or should be able to address the question. Most never see what they get hit with.

Not really? ???

Professional boxers. MMA, Muay Thai, etc., "fight a lot" and fight in "a practice thats geared towards fighting." Some "never see what they get hit with."

There are fights and analysis, on video, of some of the greatest fighters of all time in history and present, along with their trainers. They "will or should be able to address the question."
Last edited by marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:47 am

marvin8 wrote:
Not really? ???

Professional boxers. MMA, Muay Thai, etc., "fight a lot" and fight in "a practice thats geared towards fighting." Some "never see what they get hit with."

There are fights and analysis, on video, of some of the greatest fighters of all time in history and present, along with their trainers. They "will or should be able to address the question."



re read it. Some never see what they get hit with because they didnt see it. All practice to be able too,
just as others practice to be able to hit someone with out them "seeing it"

Are you one of the greatest fighters of all time, whats your point.
Do you have any drills that address this?

Do you know how to de-train the blink reflex, is it a good thing to do ?

CMA at least traditional CMA training addresses this, those styles that do fight
and engage with others in either in sportive venues or on the street are well aware of it.
Boxes and other arts those professional as you say have their answers and address them according
to their requirements just as CMA did, and does of those who train it.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:55 am

dspyrido wrote:
Do the eyes deceive? Only if they are untrained & luckily many are which creates a wonderful opportunity to pepper anyone not doing something about this weakness.

But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


agree ;)

anyone who is training for usage in CMA would also get some of the training
and understanding of this. Either through training it directly or as you mentioned finding out the hard way....

Those training in traditional CMA shouldn't have to ask a boxer, they should know already..One might
wonder what they'er training is for if they do not.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:07 am

marvin8 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


not really, just ask people who've fought, fight a lot....or a practice thats geared towards
fighting
. All will or should be able to address the question. Most never see what they get hit with.

Not really? ???

Professional boxers. MMA, Muay Thai, etc., "fight a lot" and fight in "a practice thats geared towards fighting." Some "never see what they get hit with."

There are fights and analysis, on video, of some of the greatest fighters of all time in history and present, along with their trainers. They "will or should be able to address the question."

windwalker wrote:re read it.

(I am responding to you questions.) Okay, I "re read it." You said to "just ask" a category of people "who've fought, fight a lot....or do a practice thats geared towards fighting." Do you believe professional boxers. MMA, Muay Thai, etc., "fought, fight a lot....or do a practice thats geared towards fighting"? I am not following your logic here.

windwalker wrote:Are you one of the greatest fighters of all time, whats your point.

No. But, this is what I actually said:
marvin8 wrote:There are fights and analysis, on video, of some of the greatest fighters of all time in history and present, along with their trainers. They "will or should be able to address the question."

My point is my videos posted may be relevant to the topic of the thread as they show using punches out of peripheral vision and explaining the use of feints.

windwalker wrote:Boxers and other arts those professional as you say have their answers and address them according to their requirements just as CMA did, and does of those who train it.

Now you say, "Boxers and other arts those professional as you say have their answers and address them." Well, dspryido suggested, "the answer is go ask a boxer." Your reply to him was "not really". Why would you say boxers have answers and address them. Then, tell dspyrido, "not really". Again, not following the logic.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:20 am

windwalker wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
Do the eyes deceive? Only if they are untrained & luckily many are which creates a wonderful opportunity to pepper anyone not doing something about this weakness.

But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


agree ;)

anyone who is training for usage in CMA would also get some of the training
and understanding of this. Either through training it directly or as you mentioned finding out the hard way....

Those training in traditional CMA shouldn't have to ask a boxer, they should know already..One might
wonder what they'er training is for if they do not.

Well it seem that some peoples who practice CIMA focus too much on Fajin and Peng stuff(because this must be the fighting aspect of for example TJQ), and less on good "outside"awareness, timing and footwork.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:25 am

But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


not really

One would think this by reading this thread if one never addressed this, never trained it or was unaware of it.
Anyone who's trained in traditional CMA does not need to "ask a boxer" their training,
teacher, or experience should and will address this.

It's good advice for those who's training does not.
Asking or working with boxers or anyone in any other related field,
always a good idea for answers that ones training may not address.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:29 am

windwalker wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
Do the eyes deceive? Only if they are untrained & luckily many are which creates a wonderful opportunity to pepper anyone not doing something about this weakness.

But you would think that after reading this thread it looks like the answer is go ask a boxer.


agree ;)

anyone who is training for usage in CMA would also get some of the training
and understanding of this. Either through training it directly or as you mentioned finding out the hard way....

Those training in traditional CMA shouldn't have to ask a boxer, they should know already..One might
wonder what they'er training is for if they do not.

There was no mention of CMA in the OP. The discussion was in general on peripheral vision and magic/illusion. No one suggested, "CMA should have to ask a boxer."

You mentioned:
windwalker wrote:Do you have any drills that address this?

Do you know how to de-train the blink reflex, is it a good thing to do ?

CMA at least traditional CMA training addresses this

Can you explain how "CMA training addresses this?"
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:31 am

marvin8 wrote:
Can you explain how "CMA training addresses this?"


Find a teacher who teaches traditional CMA and you will know.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:41 am

windwalker wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
Can you explain how "CMA training addresses this?"


Find a teacher who teaches traditional CMA and you will know.

But, these were your questions. Why ask me these questions and say CMA addresses them, then not answer them yourself?
windwalker wrote:Are you one of the greatest fighters of all time, whats your point.
Do you have any drills that address this?

Do you know how to de-train the blink reflex, is it a good thing to do ?

CMA at least traditional CMA training addresses this
Last edited by marvin8 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our peripheral vision sucks

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:48 am

marvin8 wrote:There was no mention of CMA in the OP. The discussion was in general on peripheral vision and magic/illusion. No one suggested, "CMA should have to ask a boxer."
"

Well it was asked:
So the question is how can we take advantage of this weakness for fighting strategy? ....And posted in: Xingyiquan-Baguazhang-Taijiquan forum
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