Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby johnwang on Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:45 pm

Taiji has outside crescent as "lotus kick". Why doesn't Taiji have "inside crescent kick"? If Taiji has "inside crescent kick", should Taiji also have "roundhouse kick"?

Your thought?
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8223
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby Appledog on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:28 pm

johnwang wrote:Taiji has outside crescent as "lotus kick". Why doesn't Taiji have "inside crescent kick"? If Taiji has "inside crescent kick", should Taiji also have "roundhouse kick"?

Your thought?


We have this kind of kick in Chen style, but I am guessing the reason why it isn't so popular is because it can expose your side if you miss. Kind of like getting blocked from the outside, your other arm/leg will be in a bad position to attack or defend.

Actually this kick is taught as a jibengong exercise by my teachers, go figure.
Appledog
Anjing
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:37 pm

It doesn't?
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:32 pm

Every single leg stance or every empty leg, every insubstantial leg, whatever the jargon, is any shape kick you want, for the given situation.
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
The point . is absolute
Wanderingdragon
Wuji
 
Posts: 6149
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:33 pm
Location: Chgo Il

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:59 am

It's there if you put it there, inflexible, fixed curriculum is a dead curriculum. Analogues to TJQ, stiff/rigid = dead, in more ways than one. These things need to be constantly challenged and evolved, otherwise you may as well collect antiques.
MistyMonkeyMethod
Santi
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: Probably on a plane

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:05 am

The form is not an antique
It is a living breathing entity complete and realised
Nothing should be taken away and nothing needs to be added
If you can't see it look deeper
It is the practicioner who lacks not the method
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:15 am

If that was the case, you won't have any problems naming a TJQ fighter who trains solely traditional methods, as in no cross training, and can fight, compete and win.

Also I didn't mention anything about form, that's all you. I'm talking about adding things you find useful for combat to your curriculum (along with nei/chi gung, stance work, strength and conditioning, etc.), but I'm guessing you're more of a form only guy.
Last edited by MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
MistyMonkeyMethod
Santi
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: Probably on a plane

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:29 am

we will now slde into the path of bullshit, if you know Tai Chi you know kicks ITS THAT SIMPLE!
The point . is absolute
Wanderingdragon
Wuji
 
Posts: 6149
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:33 pm
Location: Chgo Il

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:42 am

Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?
Last edited by MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
MistyMonkeyMethod
Santi
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: Probably on a plane

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby amor on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:55 am

johnwang wrote:Taiji has outside crescent as "lotus kick". Why doesn't Taiji have "inside crescent kick"? If Taiji has "inside crescent kick", should Taiji also have "roundhouse kick"?

Your thought?


I think it does but perhaps the reason you don't think it does is because it borrows from a range of kicking styles e.g. roundhouse kicks, mid kicks, crescent kicks, flying kicks, side kicks, sweeps etc.

I think the following video shows martial artist philip rhee doing what probably amounts to all the different forms of kicking techniques that one can utilize not just in external styles but also internal arts like taichi if the situation and opportunity presents itself. Can you name all the different kicking techniques you see him doing? Plenty of roundhouse and other kicking techniques.
Are your kicks better than his?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKVXvwbKpbc
Last edited by amor on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
amor
Wuji
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 4:40 am

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:10 am

MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby Bhassler on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:17 am

Because it doesn't have a good risk/reward profile against an armored opponent, maybe?
Bhassler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: xxxxxxx

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:33 am

oragami_itto wrote:
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah


Definitely should, but that is the exception, not the rule. The exceptional kickers I know are getting their skills from bag/pad work, sparring, cross training in essence. The traditional methods, or at least the numerous ones I've seen, miss the critical elements of timing, distance, and consequently accuracy and delivery/power, plus the defensive ability in this sphere often leaves much to be desired.
MistyMonkeyMethod
Santi
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: Probably on a plane

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:24 am

MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah


Definitely should, but that is the exception, not the rule. The exceptional kickers I know are getting their skills from bag/pad work, sparring, cross training in essence. The traditional methods, or at least the numerous ones I've seen, miss the critical elements of timing, distance, and consequently accuracy and delivery/power, plus the defensive ability in this sphere often leaves much to be desired.


Taiji doesn't really use kicks the same way. Depending on how you define kick.

Kick type movements are more often used for enhanced control and tripping/sweeping more than percussive striking. Lifting, pushing, hooking. Knees in the clinch are universal and obvious. Toes to soft point strikes, testicles, back of the knee, armpit, throat. Heels to joints, top of the foot, chest, chin. Only when touching or controlling in my opinion
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:36 am

Sure, that is the classic context that I've been shown, but how often does one get in to such a situation where this is applicable, personally not so much and consequently the skill is devoid of a live environment that is the fertile soil for its development. In a contemporary sparring framework, ring/gloves, this doesn't transfer well at all, particularly when the other guys kicks can take my head off. I leaned that the hard way some time ago, and altered my training accordingly.
MistyMonkeyMethod
Santi
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: Probably on a plane

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest