Page 1 of 3

Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:45 pm
by johnwang
Taiji has outside crescent as "lotus kick". Why doesn't Taiji have "inside crescent kick"? If Taiji has "inside crescent kick", should Taiji also have "roundhouse kick"?

Your thought?

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:28 pm
by Appledog
Hello! Originally I wanted to have a "cool post count" of 108, or something like that (something associated with Tai Chi) but that does not seem possible here. Therefore I am editing this post to point out that users here cannot delete their own posts. I do not understand why users have the ability to edit their posts but not to delete their posts.

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:37 pm
by origami_itto
It doesn't?

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:32 pm
by Wanderingdragon
Every single leg stance or every empty leg, every insubstantial leg, whatever the jargon, is any shape kick you want, for the given situation.

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:59 am
by MistyMonkeyMethod
It's there if you put it there, inflexible, fixed curriculum is a dead curriculum. Analogues to TJQ, stiff/rigid = dead, in more ways than one. These things need to be constantly challenged and evolved, otherwise you may as well collect antiques.

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:05 am
by wayne hansen
The form is not an antique
It is a living breathing entity complete and realised
Nothing should be taken away and nothing needs to be added
If you can't see it look deeper
It is the practicioner who lacks not the method

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:15 am
by MistyMonkeyMethod
If that was the case, you won't have any problems naming a TJQ fighter who trains solely traditional methods, as in no cross training, and can fight, compete and win.

Also I didn't mention anything about form, that's all you. I'm talking about adding things you find useful for combat to your curriculum (along with nei/chi gung, stance work, strength and conditioning, etc.), but I'm guessing you're more of a form only guy.

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:29 am
by Wanderingdragon
we will now slde into the path of bullshit, if you know Tai Chi you know kicks ITS THAT SIMPLE!

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:42 am
by MistyMonkeyMethod
Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:55 am
by amor
johnwang wrote:Taiji has outside crescent as "lotus kick". Why doesn't Taiji have "inside crescent kick"? If Taiji has "inside crescent kick", should Taiji also have "roundhouse kick"?

Your thought?


I think it does but perhaps the reason you don't think it does is because it borrows from a range of kicking styles e.g. roundhouse kicks, mid kicks, crescent kicks, flying kicks, side kicks, sweeps etc.

I think the following video shows martial artist philip rhee doing what probably amounts to all the different forms of kicking techniques that one can utilize not just in external styles but also internal arts like taichi if the situation and opportunity presents itself. Can you name all the different kicking techniques you see him doing? Plenty of roundhouse and other kicking techniques.
Are your kicks better than his?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKVXvwbKpbc

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:10 am
by origami_itto
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:17 am
by Bhassler
Because it doesn't have a good risk/reward profile against an armored opponent, maybe?

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:33 am
by MistyMonkeyMethod
oragami_itto wrote:
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah


Definitely should, but that is the exception, not the rule. The exceptional kickers I know are getting their skills from bag/pad work, sparring, cross training in essence. The traditional methods, or at least the numerous ones I've seen, miss the critical elements of timing, distance, and consequently accuracy and delivery/power, plus the defensive ability in this sphere often leaves much to be desired.

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:24 am
by origami_itto
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Those are some very ambiguous statements.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that if you know TJQ, you can kick to the same level as for example a competent karateka or a muay thai fighter?


A competent tjq fighter should be able to employ kicks as effectively in a fight, yeah


Definitely should, but that is the exception, not the rule. The exceptional kickers I know are getting their skills from bag/pad work, sparring, cross training in essence. The traditional methods, or at least the numerous ones I've seen, miss the critical elements of timing, distance, and consequently accuracy and delivery/power, plus the defensive ability in this sphere often leaves much to be desired.


Taiji doesn't really use kicks the same way. Depending on how you define kick.

Kick type movements are more often used for enhanced control and tripping/sweeping more than percussive striking. Lifting, pushing, hooking. Knees in the clinch are universal and obvious. Toes to soft point strikes, testicles, back of the knee, armpit, throat. Heels to joints, top of the foot, chest, chin. Only when touching or controlling in my opinion

Re: Why doesn't Taiji have "roundhouse kick"?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:36 am
by MistyMonkeyMethod
Sure, that is the classic context that I've been shown, but how often does one get in to such a situation where this is applicable, personally not so much and consequently the skill is devoid of a live environment that is the fertile soil for its development. In a contemporary sparring framework, ring/gloves, this doesn't transfer well at all, particularly when the other guys kicks can take my head off. I leaned that the hard way some time ago, and altered my training accordingly.