The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby Yuen-Ming on Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Patrick wrote:But really calling Kernspecht some sort of a role model?! When his Organisation is based on deciving People ::)


Yep

I have lost contact with many old friends who used to be in that organisation but many of them had to take bank loans to "complete the program", a lot paid over half of their salary to the multilevel organisation. I think at the time Kernspetch was living in a castle and driving a Porsche.

Maybe it is better now, I am not sure, but I would be surprised if it was

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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby jaime_g on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:44 pm

Role model? All really good students of Kernspecht left him, all of them because of the money
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby RobP3 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:57 am

jonathan.bluestein wrote:
-
Look around you at the martial arts community at large, and you too will notice that the most successful people (subjectively speaking) - those who have achieved through their martial arts careers all that they wanted - were most commonly the people who knew how to appreciate others and refrain from criticizing others necessarily. That is not a coincidence.


I guess you are too young to remember the "Wing Chun wars" of the 80s. There was no restraint involved there
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby Bao on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 am

cloudz wrote:
Bao wrote:
Yes, I’ve tried to find that function, look inside, but all I find is the back cover. Maybe it’s better on desktop version. I want the names of the chapters.


Definitely take a look on a desktop if you can, there's quite a few chapters and you will get to read fairly extensively some of the content.

....

I may be at fault here for being confusing, let me try and frame this better: it is about teaching and how to teach.. But, JB very much follows a traditional paradigm, and as you might have gathered is a fan of Confucian ideals and conduct. So whilst it does what it says, it is very much geared to a certain way or philosophy of teaching/ learning that leans heavily towards certain formal/ traditional values etc.



Yes, it was easier to get the functions on desktop version. Got it. The book looks interesting.

But nothing irritates me more than a sloppy layout, so I will probably just avoid the book for purely that reason. ;D


greytowhite wrote:
Bao wrote:Your review doesn't say that parts were unreadable. And I don't think it was a totally negative review. It was a good and honest review that clearly described what it was all about. It could very well result in sales if people who are interested in parts of it reads it.


The unreadable assessment came from some of my local practice partners. That it resulted in hurt sales was Bluestein's concern, not mine.


Yes, I understood so.

Ron Panunto wrote:If you want to criticize, then read the book and critique its contents. That's all that counts.


Sure! But the issue is not about the quality of the book or about any critique on it (which none seem to have read), but about if there's any good reason to buy it in the first place. :)

I would buy such a book if it had been written by someone who had lived a long time and had a lot of experience. JB is quite a young person with not so small claims on vast knowledge. Being overly sensitive and running away from questions from potential readers won't help with neither the branding of the book nor of himself. Though I don't perfectly "get" him, as I said, I still admire the tenacity to complete a book and publish it. Well, that says something good about his character more than anything else and more than anything he can write about himself, IMHO. And I will certainly look forward to read any book he writes twenty years from now. :)
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby middleway on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:58 am

I have no dog in this fight. I just read the 'look inside' and it all seems fine if thats your thing and your looking for the material. Seems very traditional arts heavy and not relevant to the modern role of a 'coach' or martial arts athlete trainer. Perhaps the title should have been 'My thoughts on teaching martial arts.' Then there wouldnt be such a backlash.

To address one of the early points of the book on the teacher being the centre of attension. For a 'Coach' the very idea of being the centre of attension is antithetical to the goal. Coaches should be striving to fade into the background, for their personal skillset to become irrelevant to anyone but themselves, and for their merit to be guaged by the students or athletes they create.

Does anyone really care how good at fighting John Kavanagh is, or John Dannaher, or any number of elite coaches behind the best combat sports athletes in the world today? Not really, what people care about is how good they are at producing champions. There is a boxing coach near me who still has some old style skills but reliably produces people with exempliary skill, all of which could beat him to a pulp and a real match of any sort. That makes him someone I really respect and would seek out, not someone i wouldnt see because his personal skill isnt that great. That is a huge difference to the traditional arts mindset.

I wrote an article related to this point recently:

https://www.martialbody.com/Blog-Resear ... le-fallacy

So it seems this book is VERY traditionally minded from the limited material in the 'look inside', and in the landscape of the martial arts as it currently stands, might miss one of the largest and most benefitial changes in teaching mindset to emerge in martial arts.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:25 am

Middleway, thank you for the time you have taken to look into the contents of my work.

The book is indeed intended mostly for teachers of the traditional martial arts (any of them). It is not a deficit, but rather its focus. At that, it is quite a broad focus, as there are countless traditional styles. I am a teacher of traditional martial arts, then why ought I write of the role of a coach? This is not what I do or have experience with. It is strange that I had written a book for martial arts teachers, and that because you find that limited reading of the text does not match well the role of a coach, you suggest I ought to have had a different title. The title accurately describes the audience the book is intended for.

middleway wrote:Does anyone really care how good at fighting John Kavanagh is, or John Dannaher, or any number of elite coaches behind the best combat sports athletes in the world today? Not really, what people care about is how good they are at producing champions. There is a boxing coach near me who still has some old style skills but reliably produces people with exempliary skill, all of which could beat him to a pulp and a real match of any sort. That makes him someone I really respect and would seek out, not someone i wouldnt see because his personal skill isnt that great. That is a huge difference to the traditional arts mindset.


This is not at all at odds with what I have written in the book. There is a whole chapter in the book titled 'Better Than You' which deals with this topic.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby middleway on Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:23 am

Jonathan,

This is not what I do or have experience with. It is strange that I had written a book for martial arts teachers, and that because you find that limited reading of the text does not match well the role of a coach, you suggest I ought to have had a different title. The title accurately describes the audience the book is intended for.


This was not the reason for the suggested change to the title. The reason for the suggested title change was as a method for avoiding butting heads with people whom value the long traditions in their arts of developing teachers their particular way. Seems like an understandable alteration but i dont particularly care, it was simply a friendly point.

Further, Your book is about teaching martial arts. Judo, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Muay Thai, San Shou etc, etc are arguably all martial arts and at their highest levels often employ a 'coaching' approach that is rather different than the traditional 'teacher' found in the Traditional Chinese Arts. They are however martial arts teachers without a doubt, but your book is not aimed at them by your own admission. Again, it would be worth clarifying who the target market really is.

I am a teacher of traditional martial arts, then why ought I write of the role of a coach?


A Muay Thai Coach is definately a martial arts teacher. With the above admission in mind, perhaps you should not have titled your book 'The martial arts teacher' ... it should be 'The Traditional Martial Arts Teacher', and further, should not claim that it is material relevant to ALL martial arts teachers. Because Coaches of combat sports athlets fall into that definition and it doesnt seem relevant to them.

Again, I dont particularly care too much and ultimately I wish you all the best with it.

thanks
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby phil b on Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:42 am

The book is not even an accurate reflection of traditional teaching, if it reflects the ideas he has previously posted on the RSF. It's more one individual's wuxia cosplay interpretation of teaching.

Judging by some of the comments on here, some of the role models are a less than ideal.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:37 am

I'm not a martial arts teacher, but I've taught for thirty years. I know there are loads of books on developing and improving teaching methods. So, are there many books aimed at teachers of martial arts? If so, are they of use to those who don't teach? Which books have the teachers on RSF found to be helpful or have improved their teaching?
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby middleway on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:10 am

I'm not a martial arts teacher, but I've taught for thirty years. I know there are loads of books on developing and improving teaching methods. So, are there many books aimed at teachers of martial arts? If so, are they of use to those who don't teach? Which books have the teachers on RSF found to be helpful or have improved their teaching?


I am a coach not a teacher ;) ;D But the books that i found helpful that are relevant:

The Talent Code - Daniel Coyle
Conscious coaching - brett bartholomew
The mindful athlete - George Mumford
The sports Gene - David Epstien
Game Changer - The art of sport science - Fergus Connolly

thanks.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:34 am

Thanks. Most appear to be about how to improve sports performance, in general. I think they'd be useful and interesting to read. Conscious Coaching seems to come closest to being useful to a trainer. I agree that the role of a coach is somewhat different from that of a teacher. But, I think that, ideally, the teacher tries to make it possible for the student to improve and develop as an individual, not necessarily succeed at a specific endeavor. Well, outside of of life in general.

I'm biased though. I try to teach the individual not the subject, which is often irrelevant. In that sense, I think it's more like being a coach.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby AIY on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:53 am

Bao, I usually respect what you have to say on this board, but I think you're on the wrong track here, You wrote

"Question = What makes the author qualified to write a book that can teach other teachers to teach better.
Response from the author = Read my book"

Well yeah. That's a good answer, He's just not adopting your frame. It's like you're saying "Well Albert you're just a patent clerk in Zurich, not even Berlin. What makes you think you know more than Isaac Newton?"

As for your reluctance to buy the book, okay I can understand. That's your own preference. But you haven't given an objective reason that the book might not be worthwhile for others.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby marvin8 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:24 am

Bao wrote:JB is quite a young person with not so small claims on vast knowledge.

:)

Vanity Fair article, In Honor of Justin Bieber’s New Autobiography, Justin Bieber: First Step 2 Forever: My Story, the Second Through Fifth Steps 2 Forever, https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2010 ... -2-forever:
JULI WEINER on OCTOBER 12, 2010 5:00 PM wrote:Justin Bieber: First Step 2 Forever: My Story, the autobiography of savvy 16-year-old YouTube user Justin Bieber, hit suburban malls today. “I think this book is a window into my world,” Bieber wrote of the work on its cover. According to Entertainment Weekly, readers can expect to find “pages upon pages of adorable pictures from the road, tons of huge pull quotes, extraneous tweets and lyrics throughout, ridiculous stories about dating (let the jealousy from the legion begin!), pages of flowery praise for everyone who helped him get where he is today, and lots of love for Chuck Norris.” Although the book is already No. 33 on Amazon’s list of best-sellers, a sequel has not yet been announced! In anticipation of the Justin Bieber: First Step 2 Forever: My Story follow-up, we have produced what we believe to be likely additional steps 2 forever. First, though, let’s review that very first step, with verbatim snippets of My Story:

• “Even though I don’t want to be given special treatment, I guess some things are a little big different for me as I was surprised to be given a Range Rover for my sixteenth birthday.”

• “There are lots of things I really like besides girls. Like pizza. And pranking. And CHUCK NORRIS.”

• “Singers aren’t supposed to have dairy before a show, but we all know I’m a rule breaker. Pizza is just so good!”

• “My first date has been sort of mythologized as ‘Bieber’s Dating Disaster.’ I took her to King’s a buffet restaurant. Yes, I wore a white shirt. Yes, I got spaghetti. No, this was not the brightest idea. But it wasn’t a big trauma, though.”

Keeping in mind Bieber’s aesthetic and interests, we imagine the following might be soon listed as second, third, fourth, and fifth steps 2 forever.

• Step two: “I was on a date with a girl, and I was like, ‘Girl, do you want a soda?’ And she was like, ‘Yeah, a Sprite!’ And I was like, ‘Girl, you must be punking me because Sprite is mad gross!’ And she was like, ‘I was punking you!’ So yeah, I’d say that date went pretty well.”

• Step three: “Kanye West’s Twitter is my favorite book, but if we’re not counting Twitter feeds, I guess I’d have to say that my RSS feed of Kanye West’s Twitter is my favorite book.”

• Step four: “A couple weeks ago, some man approached me about designing a line of scarves, like for when it’s cold. I thought about it, but then I remembered that my mom said I had to keep a good head on my shoulders, and didn’t know if there was room for both the scarf and my head.”

• Step five: “Have you ever gotten gum stuck to your jeans? Happens to me all the time. My secret trick? Buy a new pair of jeans—one without any gum on it!”

Image
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby charles on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:25 am

AIY wrote:... you haven't given an objective reason that the book might not be worthwhile for others.


By that logic, everyone should buy every book ever published unless they are given an objective reason that a particular book might not be worthwhile for them. I think you have cart and horse reversed.
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Re: The Martial Arts Teacher - a new book

Postby Bhassler on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:42 am

middleway wrote:
I'm not a martial arts teacher, but I've taught for thirty years. I know there are loads of books on developing and improving teaching methods. So, are there many books aimed at teachers of martial arts? If so, are they of use to those who don't teach? Which books have the teachers on RSF found to be helpful or have improved their teaching?


I am a coach not a teacher ;) ;D But the books that i found helpful that are relevant:

The Talent Code - Daniel Coyle
Conscious coaching - brett bartholomew
The mindful athlete - George Mumford
The sports Gene - David Epstien
Game Changer - The art of sport science - Fergus Connolly

thanks.


Awareness Through Movement - Moshe Feldenkrais
Drills - Rory Miller
Intervention - Dan John

All of the above could be read with an eye towards process, rather than specifics.

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