Manifesting the counter-force

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby rojcewiczj on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:58 pm

From the point of not being moved, anything can be resolved. Your opponent will not like to clinch with you when they feel their arms are wrapped around something they cant control. Again, it is a matter of orientation. Are you trying to directly effect your opponent, despite their effect on you? or are you neutralizing their effect and thus controlling them indirectly?
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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby johnwang on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:09 pm

rojcewiczj wrote:Your opponent will not like to clinch with you when they feel their arms are wrapped around something they cant control.

Don't understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying the following situation will never happen?

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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby rojcewiczj on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:27 pm

What I am saying is that, regardless of the relative positions of your opponent and yourself, you can control your opponent by keeping them from moving you. If someone is pinning you down, it is necessary to act so that they are not pinning you down. If someone is pulling you around by your neck, it is necessary to act so that they are not pulling you around. More than that is not necessary in order to take control of your opponent. Either they give up trying to effect you, or they are subjugated to you by their failure to effect you.
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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby rojcewiczj on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:19 pm

More specifically, it is your central axis that must remain unaffected. I think there are two major issues which effect internal power manifesting. One is weakness of the central axis. Two is inability to distinguish the central axis from the rest of the torso and thus body. The central axis must provide the stability to cancel the opponents force, in order to do this one must be able to freely move the body around its axis, any bracing will provide a means to destabilize the axis and thus remove the counter-force which the central axis naturally produces.
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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby Trick on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:26 pm

rojcewiczj wrote:What I am saying is that, regardless of the relative positions of your opponent and yourself, you can control your opponent by keeping them from moving you. If someone is pinning you down, it is necessary to act so that they are not pinning you down. If someone is pulling you around by your neck, it is necessary to act so that they are not pulling you around. More than that is not necessary in order to take control of your opponent. Either they give up trying to effect you, or they are subjugated to you by their failure to effect you.

One's success with this theory probably depends on who the opponent is, is it an wrestler or an physically untrained Philatelist
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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby johnwang on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:03 am

rojcewiczj wrote:If someone is pulling you around by your neck, it is necessary to act so that they are not pulling you around. More than that is not necessary in order to take control of your opponent. Either they give up trying to effect you, or they are subjugated to you by their failure to effect you.

Is this just a "theory"? Has this been tested? It's too "abstract" IMO.

My solution for this is much simpler. When you use your right hand to pull my neck, I will rotate my head under your right arm and move my head to your left.

Not all problem will need solution from "force", "counter-force", ... If you can find the right key for the right lock, it won't take any effort to open that lock.
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Manifesting the counter-force

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:46 pm

Its not just "abstract". The Central axis, with its essential role in neutralizing external forces, is a physical principle through which we may derive an endless variety of effective techniques.
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