Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby shawnsegler on Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:25 am

So this is specifically related to the sort of injuries and strains we, as ICMA's end up with and how to deal with them.

I'm also stating this as more of a plea or enjoinment to take advantage of things you can that our modern world provides, especially where training injuries are concerned.

Yesterday I didn't stretch well enough and strained something in a perennial injury prone spot for me, my left shoulder where it connects to the spine/neck. Today I woke up and it was really bothering me and it hit me that in the recent past I had put things off on strains I'd had and they'd become worse and just prolonged the condition until I dealt with it. So, anyway this time I went straight for the youtube and this is the meat of my topic point- the longer we wait on injuries the more likely they are to worsen through simple bodily usage in daily activities, let alone more training through the injury. I've made it a habit over the past couple years to delve into ideas from yoga teachers or chiropractors or sports medicine people online and boy howdy is there a wealth of it. Now it's never going to be a replacement for the skills of a doctor if your injury is bad enough, but if it's minimal or just in the strain, cramp, pull, etc department and is simply making your life miserable, I would highly recommend youtube as a tool for this kind of thing. You have to, of course, use your brain and I normally will look at several depending on the problem but for most of these I will end up a ton of ideas and generally at least like 10 options are far as different stretches and useful information about the anatomy and issues for the pertinent body part. I've actually accrued a boatload of little exercises for specific areas that are now part of my knowledge base and have helped me just in general for my overall body knowledge which is super useful to those treating their bodies with our favorite Chinese torture exercises and trying to figure out how to make everything work together inside.

Anyhoo, not sure if it warrants an entire thread but I don't think enough people who do what we do really help their bodies by getting "RIGHT" on it, so to speak. We live in an amazing time and if treating your body right is a big portion of why we train, I think we owe ourselves to be good to our bodies ASAP when they are in position of weakness through injury and the net is overflowing with information of this kind, right at your fingertips. Take advantage of it!

Best,

S.

(Edit): An Example (This isnt one of the videos I used, but a quick example of the sort of thing I'm talking about...FWIW :
Last edited by shawnsegler on Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby KEND on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:52 am

I read recently that the Mets baseball club is taking a more scientific approach to reduce injuries that have plagued them in the past using traditional methods with weekly appraisals of a players fitness and requirements.Only time will tell if it will improve the club's performance
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Trick on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:11 pm

From an early time I have had this " no pain no gain" attitude, and that included continue practice as usual despite injuries such as strain. My body always healed pretty quick up until I turned 40 years old, I continued that pain no gain thing but now at 51 I feel that mentality was not very wise. I guess one always want to be that younger stronger self.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Ron Panunto on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:52 am

Trick wrote:From an early time I have had this " no pain no gain" attitude, and that included continue practice as usual despite injuries such as strain. My body always healed pretty quick up until I turned 40 years old, I continued that pain no gain thing but now at 51 I feel that mentality was not very wise. I guess one always want to be that younger stronger self.


Don't feel bad Trick, I'm 74 and still have that "no pain - no gain" attitude. I know in the long run that's it's not productive, but in the short range I've just got to do more or I feel that I won't make any gains or progress. I guess I'm just mentally ill. Nursing a sore knee now from heavy squats and too much form practice.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Steve James on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:42 am

Fwiw, "Bob and Brad," helped me out with a bout of sciatica I had a while back. Where I wholeheartedly agree with them is that the majority of back related pains and injuries today come from sitting down. Back in the day, the injuries came from lifting.

Afa no pain, no gain; it all depends on how much pain we're talking about. Pain is the bodies way of telling you there is a problem that is or could result in injury. One can also argue that "no strain, no gain" is just as true.

Most injuries will come from incorrect repetitive strains. I agree that paying attention early is the best bet. Youtube is also useful for learning anatomy and physiology, and the various ways of coping with body issues. In a way, it's better than adopting a generic approach that might be used in a class by a teacher. For ex., some students might need to work on their back extension, but find themselves in a class that focuses more on flexion. If their backs become sore, they might actually continue to do what is injuring them.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:12 am

Most problems that come are an indication of incorrect training
If they can't be fixed by adjustment to training or using Chinese lineaments you may be on the wrong path
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby johnwang on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:24 pm

I don't think 21th century can give you anything new. I have talked to so many old people. None of their doctor ever suggested them to train this posture,

Image

in order to solve this problem. Why?

Image
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:25 pm

Because that's free
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Also I think that would kill a weak back, by the time dude's that bad off you're a good year of conditioning away from being able to back bend.

I've got over of them yoga balls I'm always rolling around on
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby willie on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:47 pm

Ron Panunto wrote:
Don't feel bad Trick, I'm 74 and still have that "no pain - no gain" attitude. I know in the long run that's it's not productive, but in the short range I've just got to do more or I feel that I won't make any gains or progress. I guess I'm just mentally ill. Nursing a sore knee now from heavy squats and too much form practice.

Hi Ron, congratulations one of my teachers is around your age and he still moves like a kid. I also train 4 hours and include squats as part of my regular training regiment. I had the exact same thing happen where my knees were constantly sore from overuse. So I finally decided to start to use those knee wraps that bodybuilders use. Needless to say my knees got way better.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby northern_mantis on Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Weird how people are willing to put their health in the hands of the internet but self-taught martial artists are pretty much universally negatively appraised.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Trick on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:05 pm

willie wrote:
Ron Panunto wrote:
Don't feel bad Trick, I'm 74 and still have that "no pain - no gain" attitude. I know in the long run that's it's not productive, but in the short range I've just got to do more or I feel that I won't make any gains or progress. I guess I'm just mentally ill. Nursing a sore knee now from heavy squats and too much form practice.

Hi Ron, congratulations one of my teachers is around your age and he still moves like a kid. I also train 4 hours and include squats as part of my regular training regiment. I had the exact same thing happen where my knees were constantly sore from overuse. So I finally decided to start to use those knee wraps that bodybuilders use. Needless to say my knees got way better.

First congrats to you Ron at your age and still going strong, great inspiration. I have met and see older Taiji(and other MA) practitioners here in China that still move as young people, of course there are those less vigorous too. Lately I have come to think about coffee or caffeine might not be a good idea to consume since this affect the nervous system which might affect muscle function, for example muscles that stablilize around joint areas and thus can result in joint injuries? Now I know next to nothing about anatomy and I'm not an nutritionist so my caffeine theory is probably way off.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:46 am

Trick wrote:
willie wrote:
Ron Panunto wrote:
Don't feel bad Trick, I'm 74 and still have that "no pain - no gain" attitude. I know in the long run that's it's not productive, but in the short range I've just got to do more or I feel that I won't make any gains or progress. I guess I'm just mentally ill. Nursing a sore knee now from heavy squats and too much form practice.

Hi Ron, congratulations one of my teachers is around your age and he still moves like a kid. I also train 4 hours and include squats as part of my regular training regiment. I had the exact same thing happen where my knees were constantly sore from overuse. So I finally decided to start to use those knee wraps that bodybuilders use. Needless to say my knees got way better.

First congrats to you Ron at your age and still going strong, great inspiration. I have met and see older Taiji(and other MA) practitioners here in China that still move as young people, of course there are those less vigorous too. Lately I have come to think about coffee or caffeine might not be a good idea to consume since this affect the nervous system which might affect muscle function, for example muscles that stablilize around joint areas and thus can result in joint injuries? Now I know next to nothing about anatomy and I'm not an nutritionist so my caffeine theory is probably way off.


I wouldn't cut out coffee. Studies have shown that 2 to 4 cups a day are good for your heart.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:50 am

Steve James wrote:Fwiw, "Bob and Brad," helped me out with a bout of sciatica I had a while back. Where I wholeheartedly agree with them is that the majority of back related pains and injuries today come from sitting down. Back in the day, the injuries came from lifting.

Afa no pain, no gain; it all depends on how much pain we're talking about. Pain is the bodies way of telling you there is a problem that is or could result in injury. One can also argue that "no strain, no gain" is just as true.

Most injuries will come from incorrect repetitive strains. I agree that paying attention early is the best bet. Youtube is also useful for learning anatomy and physiology, and the various ways of coping with body issues. In a way, it's better than adopting a generic approach that might be used in a class by a teacher. For ex., some students might need to work on their back extension, but find themselves in a class that focuses more on flexion. If their backs become sore, they might actually continue to do what is injuring them.


Steve, my experience is that most injuries are due to overuse. How did you treat your sciatica? I had it over the summer and did a lot of stretching of the ass muscles to alleviate the pain.
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Re: Traditional MAist's- Take advantage of the 21st century!

Postby Steve James on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 am

For me, the trick was that it was pain caused by a herniated disc and not piriformis syndrome. I was trying to relieve the pain in my leg by massaging my butt. It didn't work. Everybody has some degree of herniation. The issue is pain. If you had it, you'll know what I mean. Once that nerve is inflamed, relaxing it is the only thing that will work. Ime, ice works better at that point.After most of the pain and inflammation is gone, heat and exercise like form does wonders. The problem is that the pain makes staying still more comfortable. Oh, fwiw, hopefully the leg and foot pain migrates up to the back where the pain is more manageable and usually where the problem originates. Well, it's true that the internet is not a reliable source. But I think it's usefulness depends on the capabilities of the user.
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