the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

wayne hansen wrote:Marketing ploy

Yes, out of Hongkong, lol!

amor wrote:Does anyone know what is the difference between tiger and snake style taichi? Do these specific styles emulate the animals they are named after and if so, how?

I was taught that the Yang style contained the characteristics of snake, crane and tiger and that all 3 were in the forms (as you can see in the names and movements) when I was in HK training with Mary Yang we went to visit Ip Tai Tak and he showed his notebooks about 'snake' style and I know Bob Boyd then focused on that.

From my perspective they are best trained in balance but I guess there's no harm in focusing on the characteristics of one if you feel lacking or want to focus in that area.

Well I was curious and bought the media some time ago now.. Overall I would do it again, it wasn't all new to me for sure but it was good material and knowledge to be exposed to none the less. As books go the snake style book by Boyd is decent, better alongside Ip's book probably which I ended up getting too. Bobs DVD series is also decent, it's good for getting the visual and experiential perspective on the exercises and body mechanics. All in all if you're into studying/researching/practicing Yang style I would say it's worth it. The difference to what you do already will be largely dependent on what you've been exposed to and have practiced thusfar so it's bound to be different for everyone.

Ok, so it seem that tiger/snake style Taijiquan only was transmitted to Hong Kong via Yang Chengfu's oldest son? or is the tiger/snake style also within Dong family's Yang-Taijiquan ? And if I understand it right Wu Taijiquan is/was? big HK, is the tiger/snake style also practiced in Wu-Taijiquan? Maybe only Yang Taijiquan in HK teach it "openly?

I think they are just descriptions that came about from the HK lineage in an attempt to quantify certain levels or stages of practice they were exposed to by YSC. And that's it, No need to make it any more complicated than that. Different groups of people using different terms and descriptions they find useful; standard practice. Various styles may or may not have similar content and descriptions, never mind terminology to match.

Trick wrote:Ok, so it seem that tiger/snake style Taijiquan only was transmitted to Hong Kong via Yang Chengfu's oldest son? or is the tiger/snake style also within Dong family's Yang-Taijiquan ? And if I understand it right Wu Taijiquan is/was? big HK, is the tiger/snake style also practiced in Wu-Taijiquan? Maybe only Yang Taijiquan in HK teach it "openly?

The Snake/tiger distinction is just a marketing thing invented twenty or maybe thirty years ago by a Yang style teacher from HK. "Snake style" is just a name, a very new name.

I'm not so sure it's "just" a marketing thing, but of course believe what you like. I mean if you had a choice to market something yourself, you would choose something that was useful according to the model you were working with as well as good marketing. Of course it is just a name, just a label. But, at the same time, if there is a real distinction to be made then why shouldn't it be made ?

For me, the tiger charactericstics are very much the base level or the external level of tai chi. If you can't form a base of a strong and connected body then the other bits are kind of a waste of time. The focus is on extension (large frame) which serves to strengthen the tendons and ligaments; "tiger!". The snake level is the more involved and nuenced body mechanics that work alongside reverse breathing and focus on the articulation of the spine, raising and lowering the upper back to drive the whole body and make the ground connection.

If you recall that video of YSC practicing was quite eye opening and revealing to many people on its release. And it was released without permission. Prior to that, by and large people thought Yang style was/ should be practiced upright, like CMC.. and only Wu style leant forward like that. That's what people mostly believed and saw about 20-30 years ago in the West. Truth is you have no idea from whom and what time these ideas/ descriptions were formed or first used, only making a part educated guess. The labels aren't so important but it's obvious that animal labels were and are widely used in TCMA regardless. In fact I get BKF emails and he's been selling his tai chi mastery program again recently; and part of that information involved the snake and crane ideology as it pertains to TCC style of movements.

But of course we must understand and know that being cynical is the easy way to understand everything that goes on in this here world !

cloudz wrote:
But of course we must understand and know that being cynical is the easy way to understand everything that goes on in this here world !

Don't forget the pedantry!

cloudz wrote:
For me, the tiger charactericstics are very much the base level or the external level of tai chi. If you can't form a base of a strong and connected body then the other bits are kind of a waste of time. The focus is on extension (large frame) which serves to strengthen the tendons and ligaments; "tiger!". The snake level is the more involved and nuenced body mechanics that work alongside reverse breathing and focus on the articulation of the spine, raising and lowering the upper back to drive the whole body and make the ground connection.

If you recall that video of YSC practicing was quite eye opening and revealing to many people on its release. And it was released without permission. Prior to that, by and large people thought Yang style was/ should be practiced upright, like CMC.. and only Wu style leant forward like that.

Yours tiger/snake distinction is solely yours? or is that how Yang family describe their tiger/snake practice? I remember the YSC video but very long time ago I have seen it, well here it is (without permission) with some additional filming of other practitioners http://v.youku.com/pad_show/id_XNTM3ODE ... %25AD%2520

Not sure if it's YSC in this video? Is this the tiger or the snake distinction of Yang Taijiquan ? http://v.youku.com/pad_show/id_XMjgyNjA ... AD%2520Now I actually have no clue, but I have got the impression that in HK wing chun, hung gar and similar gongfu had/have a reputation as being "fighty" Gungfu, did/does yang taiji fit in that category too

Trick wrote:Not sure if it's YSC in this video? Is this the tiger or the snake distinction of Yang Taijiquan ? http://v.youku.com/pad_show/id_XMjgyNjA ... AD%2520Now I actually have no clue, but I have got the impression that in HK wing chun, hung gar and similar gongfu had/have a reputation as being "fighty" Gungfu, did/does yang taiji fit in that category too

That's Ip Tai Tak training on his roof.

This is the grainy YSC footage

That film is presented by Wang Zihe of Taiwan. He holds it in his hands, even had tried to bring YSH over to TW (failed), so Wang did not give permission to publish?