Pliability

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Pliability

Postby Steve James on Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:11 am

Well, this was my first post on this thread before you'd even posted, iinm.

I agree that champions make themselves, but it also depends on what the materials they have to work with and the opportunities they have.


So, I'd already said becoming a champion depends on more than one factor. Still, a 5'3" person has little hope of becoming Olympic champion high jumper. I'm just not willing to say that it's impossible. I've seen wrestlers with no legs, and pitchers with one arm.

Afa courage, I took my sons to judo when they were young. The 6 year-old was put up against an 8 year-old green belt who proceeded to toss my son around and pin him at will. My son was almost crying, but he kept getting back up. Thirty years have passed; it still makes me proud when I think of it. No, I'm not saying that he got anything from me. All I know is that it was something that was inside him. I'd imagine that seeing certain qualities in a student would make a teacher or coach say "that kid has potential."

I think that'd be true of someone who walked into a tcc school that competed. That, however, doesn't mean that the student with the most potential will have the greatest career.
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Re: Pliability

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:33 am

cloudz wrote:Also you really think the last place guy and the first place guy are identical genetically ?
That's dumb and misses the point of people being different, no one has the same 'genes' in this context.. or the identical training and work ethic, for that matter..

The discussion was about Champions being made/ not born.. I agree that to an extent they are made and haven't disputed that, but some are also born with various Natural strengths and traits (sometimes relatively significant advantages whether it is to do with physicality or skillfullness) that play significant part in their performances and successes. I wanted to highlight that, as that part often gets ignored or sidelined in the populist mainstream narratives: thanks for proving my point. To be fair to you, I don't think I'm saying anything that shouldn't be glaringly obvious either.

I covered your comments here. Their emphasis in the videos is not on "Natural strengths and traits." The Steph Curry videos directly addresses your comments. Not trying to convince you. Just discussing apparently different views.
Michael Jordan wrote:@ :35, Maybe I led you to believe that basketball was a god given gift. And, not something that I worked for every single day of my life. . . . Or maybe you’re just making excuses.

marvin8 wrote:I discussed several reasons why. Also, I included 3 videos. If you disagree with Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, and the coach in those videos and wisdom quotes: Legends are made, not born and Champions are made, not born, then I agree to disagree.
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Re: Pliability

Postby cloudz on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:00 am

marvin8 wrote:
cloudz wrote:Also you really think the last place guy and the first place guy are identical genetically ?
That's dumb and misses the point of people being different, no one has the same 'genes' in this context.. or the identical training and work ethic, for that matter..

The discussion was about Champions being made/ not born.. I agree that to an extent they are made and haven't disputed that, but some are also born with various Natural strengths and traits (sometimes relatively significant advantages whether it is to do with physicality or skillfullness) that play significant part in their performances and successes. I wanted to highlight that, as that part often gets ignored or sidelined in the populist mainstream narratives: thanks for proving my point. To be fair to you, I don't think I'm saying anything that shouldn't be glaringly obvious either.

I covered your comments here. Their emphasis in the videos is not on "Natural strengths and traits." The Steph Curry videos directly addresses your comments. Not trying to convince you. Just discussing apparently different views.
Michael Jordan wrote:@ :35, Maybe I led you to believe that basketball was a god given gift. And, not something that I worked for every single day of my life. . . . Or maybe you’re just making excuses.

marvin8 wrote:I discussed several reasons why. Also, I included 3 videos. If you disagree with Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, and the coach in those videos and wisdom quotes: Legends are made, not born and Champions are made, not born, then I agree to disagree.


Just because people work for a goal doesn't mean they don't have natural gifts at the same time eg. M. Jordon. Him denying it makes no difference, just like if Maradona denied he simply was more skillfull than your average player. There are just some things that coaches can't coach or can be done by all. If you can't see this in sportspeople with your own eyes then it's pointless talking to you about it. Something else that can also be said in fight sports is that we artificially negate some of the obvious genetic advantages, we go out of our way to equal the playing field and give other factors more impact by using weight classes. Take away their natural gifts whether physical or skill based and so many Champions would no longer be one and the same Champions, I think that's a truth whether you agree or not. If you're just going to take this at a black and white level and persist in being in love with those one sided statements then you can - it doesn't matter to me in the end, no one is actually disagreeing that there are other vital factors to success other than natural abilities.
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