Creating the Big

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Creating the Big

Postby willie on Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:11 pm

There was a recent argument that the dantian should not be seen in actual application. This couldn't be further from the truth.
The engine and advanced mechanics were made to be learned and "used"
Going back and fortifying the advanced mechanics of the big is where the true power resides.
In-short, Create the space for the big.

Happy New Year!
Last edited by willie on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:37 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby BruceP on Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:41 pm

Don't really agree with your post. Large and small can be effectively trained/practiced/explored and applied under pressure in equal measure at the same time.

One doesn't necessarily need to practice large before understanding small. They actually reside together and the training just needs to 'ask the right questions' in exploring their applied method(s). It's easy...

4:30 - 4:50 looks really good, btw
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:09 pm

BruceP wrote:Don't really agree with your post. Large and small can be effectively trained/practiced/explored and applied under pressure in equal measure at the same time.

One doesn't necessarily need to practice large before understanding small. They actually reside together and the training just needs to 'ask the right questions' in exploring their applied method(s). It's easy...

4:30 - 4:50 looks really good, btw
it's okay, you don't have to agree. I guess that it's just a part of my personal Journey and where I'm presently at. Thanks for the compliment and have a very good New Year
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby Trick on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:09 pm

willie wrote:There was a recent argument that the dantian should not be seen in actual application. This couldn't be further from the truth.
Some people are using an accuse of the small as a certificate of the advanced, without ever understanding why.
The jump from the big to the small could be too fast, basically never really having a true understanding of the big.
Without the big, There is little deadly explosive power

Happy New Year!

Hi Willie, I think you maybe refer to the Hunyan Taiji teacher in SF(I think it was) of who there was a video posted here recently ? The Taijiquan"created" by Feng Zhiqiang focus very much on big circles. He changed somewhat the original Chenshi Taiji he was taught in the way that he made the small circles more pronounced, so more easily grasped by " beginners" students and further nurtured by more advanced practitioners. Now this practice is for solo practice, when it comes to push-hand/application or other sparring exercises techniques and actions (should)become compact and smaller. Happy New Year
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby Trick on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:14 pm

Oh, I guess there is a video clip in the OP ? I can't see it, but I'm sure it good. Happy New Year
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby Finny on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:22 pm

Interesting stuff Willie - thanks for sharing.
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:02 am

Finny wrote:Interesting stuff Willie - thanks for sharing.
thanks Finney. Happy holidays to you and your family
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:13 am

Trick wrote:
Hi Willie, I think you maybe refer to the Hunyan Taiji teacher in SF(I think it was) of who there was a video posted here recently ? The Taijiquan"created" by Feng Zhiqiang focus very much on big circles. He changed somewhat the original Chenshi Taiji he was taught in the way that he made the small circles more pronounced, so more easily grasped by " beginners" students and further nurtured by more advanced practitioners. Now this practice is for solo practice, when it comes to push-hand/application or other sparring exercises techniques and actions (should)become compact and smaller. Happy New Year
hi trick. I think that we are talking about the same person. I actually liked their material a lot, but I do prefer actually using the cams that are created by more or less medium sized circles. If the answer was truly no Circle, then there would be no reason to ever learn the circles. All mechanical advantages, leverage ratios and cams, created from the hips would all just be sort of erased.
I asked my teacher one night when we were training, what was the main difference between how incredibly effective he was compared to where I was at that time? He said, everything that he is doing is powered. There is no place without it . He proved it to me . That night made me realize that I needed to re-evaluate everything that I have ever learned. I had to start all over.
Last edited by willie on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby Trick on Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:20 am

willie wrote:
Trick wrote:
Hi Willie, I think you maybe refer to the Hunyan Taiji teacher in SF(I think it was) of who there was a video posted here recently ? The Taijiquan"created" by Feng Zhiqiang focus very much on big circles. He changed somewhat the original Chenshi Taiji he was taught in the way that he made the small circles more pronounced, so more easily grasped by " beginners" students and further nurtured by more advanced practitioners. Now this practice is for solo practice, when it comes to push-hand/application or other sparring exercises techniques and actions (should)become compact and smaller. Happy New Year
hi trick. I think that we are talking about the same person. I actually liked their material a lot, but I do prefer actually using the cams that are created by more or less medium sized circles. If the answer was truly no Circle, then there would be no reason to ever learn the circles. All mechanical advantages, leverage ratios and cams, created from the hips would all just be sort of erased.
I asked my teacher one night when we were training, what was the main difference between how incredibly effective he was compared to where I was at that time? He said, everything that he is doing is powered. There is no place without it . He proved it to me . That night made me realize that I needed to re-evaluate everything that I have ever learned. I had to start all over.
Yes I agree with you about practicing and understanding the bigger circles and frames. From my own experience practice this way diligently it "naturally" comes out small compact and sharp at will or spontaneous depending on the circumstance
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Trick wrote: Yes I agree with you about practicing and understanding the bigger circles and frames. From my own experience practice this way diligently it "naturally" comes out small compact and sharp at will or spontaneous depending on the circumstance


You are correct. After training the big, the small will start to naturally come out.
However, I want to make it clear that what I am actually talking about when I decided to create the post is more about
keeping the arcs, cams, and mechanical advantages of the big while in actual application.

In another training session on sealing.
My teacher showed me the difference between sealing with and without the Bigger mechanics and cams.
The difference is staggering. I want you to think of a pair of visegrips. look at the levers and how the cams work.
Circle is a bad name, it's more like arcs.
Now imagine no arc , no circle. If the levers creating the cams were removed, then there wouldn't be much left of the visegrips...
The original purpose and application of them would be lost.
Last edited by willie on Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby Bill on Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:46 am

Willie
Thanks for the vid. I like a lot I see in it.
2 questions...
1. Do Chen peeps practice any form of hand toughening? If so, could you describe it?
2. Chen fa jing looks impressive 'in the air'. Do you practice this power on heavy bags? I haven't seen footage of Chen bag work.
It hurts when I Pi
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:27 pm

Bill wrote:Willie
Thanks for the vid. I like a lot I see in it.
2 questions...
1. Do Chen peeps practice any form of hand toughening? If so, could you describe it?
2. Chen fa jing looks impressive 'in the air'. Do you practice this power on heavy bags? I haven't seen footage of Chen bag work.

Hi Bill. My teacher strikes trees for hand toughening. But actually it's really more than just hand toughening. As the tree is truck it is important that the structure of the body shows no sign of weakening. Yes training fajin on heavy bags is helpful because that kind of power release is very dangerous when applied to a partner. Our approach to Tai Chi is very different then what is generally seen out there. The trademark moves that are seen in the forms are actually put to use. We do not do very much Cooperative type Push Hands. Thanks for your comment. Happy New Year
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby robert on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:39 pm

willie wrote:My teacher strikes trees for hand toughening. But actually it's really more than just hand toughening. As the tree is truck it is important that the structure of the body shows no sign of weakening.

Hi Willie, Is that something that your teacher was shown by a Chen guy from China or just something he does?
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby willie on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:10 pm

robert wrote:
willie wrote:My teacher strikes trees for hand toughening. But actually it's really more than just hand toughening. As the tree is truck it is important that the structure of the body shows no sign of weakening.

Hi Willie, Is that something that your teacher was shown by a Chen guy from China or just something he does?


It comes from China.
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Re: Creating the Big

Postby robert on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:23 pm

But not from Chen then?
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
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