Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:22 am

It is the sinking of the boat that makes it boyant
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby klonk on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:19 am

wayne hansen wrote:It is the sinking of the boat that makes it boyant


Okay! That is accurate, cogent and intelligent. About time something like that happened on this thread.

Without useful use, what have we? Airy cobwebs of Chinese history.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:53 am

I humbly apologise
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby klonk on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:14 am

Don't mind me. Carry on.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby johnwang on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:05 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Even if they don't attack the should at least defend ...



The missing elements in this kind of video is when the teacher attacks, the student responds. The teacher then borrows his student's respond force and reacts. The student can yield or resist. The student can respond once, twice, or ...

Here is an example that A borrows B's yielding force.

1. A pushes, B yields.
2. A borrows B's yielding force and pushes again.



Here is an example that A borrows B's resisting force.

1. A pushes, B resists.
2. A borrows B's resisting force and change push into pull, B resists again.
3. A borrows B's resisting force and change pull back into push.

Last edited by johnwang on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby David Boxen on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 pm

Does pengjin relate to the ability to neither resist nor yield?
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:10 pm

You miss the point
The student should just not yield to the set up and be pushed on the second round
He should be equally alive in the confrontation
He should be testing the teacher
If not it is an unreal demo of Peng
Peng is a response to a live attack
If the attack is not there Peng does not exist
It is just playing the patsey
Nothing wrong with that when showing a set response to a particular situation
But it is not Peng
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Ed Ladnar on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:12 pm

I read somewhere that the "peng" in "peng jin" is onomatopoeic, is that correct? If so, does that give a clue as to what it is? If not, what is a literal translation of "peng"?
Last edited by Ed Ladnar on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby slowEdie on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:45 pm

Springy, like a cane basket.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Ed Ladnar on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:33 pm

So it is likely onomatopoeic, perhaps equivalent to the English "boing" but not specific to tai chi? Still interesting, if so.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Bao on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:44 pm

Ed Ladnar wrote:So it is likely onomatopoeic, perhaps equivalent to the English "boing" but not specific to tai chi? Still interesting, if so.


The character for peng is 掤 and means quiver.

The language is contextual and the meaning somewhat as well. A character can be a noun, a verb, an adjective etc depending on context. But the characters have their own meaning. The meaning of characters also differs for different disciplines, so for Tai Chi, peng has a Tai Chi specific meaning.

You can read the discussion on this page and maybe you will be wiser or maybe more confused...

[url]http://practicalmethod.com/2012/04/peng-is-it-written-掤-or-棚/[/url]
Last edited by Bao on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Fa Xing on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:52 pm

Bao wrote:
Fa Xing wrote:So right of the top of my head, the initial movement in Lazily Tying Up the Clothes (Lan Zhi Yi) at the very start of the form following Tai Ji is the best and easiest example of pengjin.


Every Tai Chi has an opening movement, raise hands. That is not what I asked about. Generally across the form, where and how is pengjin expressed in the Sun (Jianyun) Tai chi form? I thought you studied Sun Tai chi, you should know.


That's "Tai Ji", the movement after it is what I'm referring to.
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby charles on Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:26 pm

Bao wrote: for Tai Chi, peng has a Tai Chi specific meaning.



In short, it is context-specific jargon. Once you understand that it is jargon, arguing about the origin or meaning of the word outside of that context is irrelevant to understanding the meaning of the word within its context.

Jargon is a type of language that is used in a particular context and may not be well understood outside that context. The context is usually a particular occupation (that is, a certain trade, profession, or academic field), but any ingroup; or social group to which a person psychologically identifies as being a member, can have jargon. The main trait that distinguishes jargon from the rest of a language is special vocabulary—including some words specific to it, and often different senses or meanings of words, that outgroups would tend to take in another sense; —therefore misunderstanding that communication attempt. Jargon is thus "the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Ed Ladnar on Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:50 pm

Bao - all that link tells me is there is not general agreement even among Chinese speakers what the correct character for "peng" is.

Charles - if "peng" was chosen as jargon because it is an onomatopoeic representation of the subject of the jargon, then that is informative. Thus my original question - is it meant to be onomatopoeic in the tai chi context?
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Re: Just what the heck is Peng Jin anyway?

Postby Bao on Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:03 pm

Ed Ladnar wrote:Bao - all that link tells me is there is not general agreement even among Chinese speakers what the correct character for "peng" is.


There are articles that specify the character. Ma Yueliang: "There is another word with the same sound and only one stroke different that means something like structure or framework and people often think this is what is meant by Peng. If you base your Taiji on this incorrect meaning of Peng then the whole of your Taiji will be incorrect."

If you search Chinese articles almost all of them use "掤". The confusion is not really about the character itself, but about the meaning of the term. The meaning of the term is often brought from the "wrong" character.
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