Appledog wrote:Since some people here have been around since the early/mid ninties, it is quite a wonder then how people are still so confused about peng.
Okay, I'll bite.
For me, what is quite a wonder is not how people are so confused about Peng. Quite the contrary. Nearly every Taijiquan "player" knows exactly what Peng is - just ask them. The wonder-part is that relatively few have the same definition. Heck, people can't even agree on who's the boat and who's the water.
The trouble people get into is that peng is in fact a directional force so-to-speak, and thus, it must be applied against a force in order to be effective.This is the trip up which causes people to go 1000 miles off course.
One of the "troubles people get into" is that classical literature on the subject describes two different things with the same term. There is "Peng" the overall, omnipresent body "quality" and there is "Peng" the directional action that has as its basis the omnipresent body quality.
If you visualize the path of the energy it is along the arm, sent by the muscles, along the length of the arm. This method of training can not produce peng jing because this method of training will produce a dead force that can always be redirected -- because it travels in a straight line....This turning motion will illuminate the same pathway as straight-forward force but the mechanism and application of force will be different. The goal then is to congeal this energy so that it drives not along the physical application of force but the illuminated application of force. One can immediately see that many years of training would be necessary to achieve this even on a local basis.... Thus making the circle smaller is really just the process of aligning the big circle 90 degrees on-axis with the illuminated pathway of force.
I've been doing this a long time. I've yet to reach the level that my spiralling motion "illuminates" some otherwise dark garden pathway. I've also never been able to "congeal" energy. (What does it mean to "congeal" energy and by what mechanism?)
Correct me if I've misunderstood, but I think you are trying to say that the "dead force" is a linear application, while the "illuminated" force is a helical motion: it it acts along the longitudinal axis while also rotating (twisting). And, a helical application of force can't be redirected, while a linear one can, which isn't true in practical terms.
You must strictly adhere to the orthodox terms, orthodox usage, and orthodox forms as taught to you by your teacher or you will never understand and fall into illusion.
Your descriptions, above, do not adhere to the "orthodox" terms. Does that imply you don't understand and have fallen into illusion?
Taijiquan, and its skills, are experiential. To communicate those experiences, people use words to describe and explain what they feel and do. The words are inadequate to the task. (Describe for me the color blue, for example, or the feeling of pain.) The words are not the experience, the map is not the terrain. Similarly, it is not the "orthodox" forms that matter, but what those forms are filled with. Traditionally, that has been learned from first-hand experience with a skilled teacher, one who can help guide the student's experience to arrive at those specific skills.
Today's circumstances are not so much that one doesn't adhere to "orthodox" terms and forms, but that many have attempted to learn the art without sufficient, prolonged exposure to skilled teachers. Learning from a book or video, makes a difficult task all that more difficult, as does getting distracted by trying to figure out who is the boat and who is the water.
It is the nature of us martial artists to ignore the near and reach for the far.
There is probably nothing "special" about "us martial artists" in this regard: many people " ignore the near and reach for the far".
If you have not mastered something like ba duan jin you should seek out a qualified master and just work on the basics.
If one hasn't mastered the basics, it is good advice to study with someone who has. However, given that many "qualified masters" diverge on what they think Peng is, one shouldn't be surprised if doing so doesn't create consensus. What it should do, is provide one with the necessary basic skills.
If you come here to me I will show you for free, of course, you get what you pay for (i.e. i'm not a master, but I know what this thing is).
That is a kind and generous offer.