The "Fake" stuff...

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:57 am

so -- we all know there is "fake" stuff out there...
some people even call it out.. post it and point out that it is "fake"

its not martial enough, its not real enough, it would not work,
etc...

(now as a sort of aside-- yes there is some bad stuff out there, stuff that won't work, stuff that is not martial...)

but when you call it out...
you are presupposing that you are in a position to judge what is real and what is fake...

so my question is -- if you post other people's shit and say its fake...
and then someone comes along and hands you your ass..
does that mean your shit was fake all along?



??? :-X ;D


-- i actually have no person in mind when i post this
so un bunch your panties...
and i definitely am not defending any one- either--

its just a general comment on the state of internet warrioring...
Last edited by Franklin on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby cloudz on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:22 am

It doesn't matter, just because one guy can beat another doesn't follow that that first guy can't or doesn't post nonsense or stuff that is dubious let's say. They are not directly related.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Aqui on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:54 am

All these fake martial artists are no problem AS LONG as they don't teach (usually they charge large amounts of money to teach their super secret stuff).
But the moment you use fake shit to promote your style to rip of your students, your a fraud.
my 2 cents...
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Trick on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:30 am

You guys with the "real stuff" that live within the EU need not to worry, soon the countries within the Union will set up "Anti Fake News/(Information)"units. Everything that's fake will vanish.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:21 am

seek and you will find, I'm lookin for the real
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:54 pm

Some things are fake
Some lead down false paths
Some are just hero worship
Some are commercial in intent
Some are just poor quality
Like the monk who was singing the song on here "all men are brothers"
I don't write on here for those who are a long way down the path ,it is too late
I just try to give another perspective to those who are looking for clarity
It is not what you don't learn that effects you it is the time you waste on the useless
It is the things that you are taught that stop you from seeing clearly
For evil to exist all it requires is for good men to say nothing
So I will persist on raving on in my bumbling fashion
But I make all here a promise I will never knowingly tell you a lie
Anything I critique will be because I can see it for what it is
And no Franklin I didn't think it was me you were talking about
It is just my thoughts on tha subject
The more people learn about CMA the closer it is to oblivian
The bigger the hero,the more fame,the greater number of students the less they have to teach
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby cloudz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:56 am

that was pretty deep Wayne.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby I-mon on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:04 am

wayne hansen wrote:Some things are fake
Some lead down false paths
Some are just hero worship
Some are commercial in intent
Some are just poor quality
Like the monk who was singing the song on here "all men are brothers"
I don't write on here for those who are a long way down the path ,it is too late
I just try to give another perspective to those who are looking for clarity
It is not what you don't learn that effects you it is the time you waste on the useless
It is the things that you are taught that stop you from seeing clearly
For evil to exist all it requires is for good men to say nothing
So I will persist on raving on in my bumbling fashion
But I make all here a promise I will never knowingly tell you a lie
Anything I critique will be because I can see it for what it is
And no Franklin I didn't think it was me you were talking about
It is just my thoughts on tha subject
The more people learn about CMA the closer it is to oblivian
The bigger the hero,the more fame,the greater number of students the less they have to teach


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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Steve Rowe on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:22 am

It's never been any different, there are just more people doing it. Most want 'fake' - they like dressing up, playing at something that's close to home and a social gathering with 'nice' people. They don't want real - those that do search it out. - it's always been like that.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:57 am

I have met plenty of people who if they had the right stuff from the start would be good students
They have been taught to look with deluded eyes
A student of mine who had been training for 30 years told me my tai chi was the best he had seen
I told him he thought that because he had been taught to look with my eyes
He was looking from a biased outlook
If all the charletens went away tomorrow only the real stuff would remain
Some people would stay and learn the lot others would not
At least they would have the opportunity
If there is only pure water to drink we would drink
For those that don't want the real thing there is always Morris dancing
The reason traditional martial arts is not so strong today is because the best students go to MMA
Give me those students I will produce warriors
Saying all that it matters little
What will be will be
I am just a little bitter I will take real gems to the grave as many others have
It is not I that will miss out but a long thread of priceless knowledge will be lost
Last edited by wayne hansen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby everything on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:24 am

It is the exact same thing in every field of endeavor, actually.

That's why making everything "open source" protects the knowledge. It's not about a long, linear thread. Good stuff gets adopted, improved, passed on. That's the other reason modern mma as a process proves superior. Everything is transparent, tested out by a large number of people in a "live lab", including top people, some things get rejected, some things get retained. There is still a lot of room for "closed source" and "proprietary" on top of that platform.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:46 pm

By long thread I don't mean no other influences are considered
MMA is not that transparent
A vigorous media campaign muddies the waters
Then like all sports I am sure the drug issue gives a distorted view
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:37 pm

cloudz wrote:It doesn't matter, just because one guy can beat another doesn't follow that that first guy can't or doesn't post nonsense or stuff that is dubious let's say. They are not directly related.



by that logic..
even if people put stuff up that is dubious or nonsense
then it would stand to reason that it doesn't mean that they don't have anything good to offer...
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:38 pm

Trick wrote:You guys with the "real stuff" that live within the EU need not to worry, soon the countries within the Union will set up "Anti Fake News/(Information)"units. Everything that's fake will vanish.


sounds like we will have to ensure counter measures are in place
otherwise how will we find entertainment on the interweb....

:o
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Re: The "Fake" stuff...

Postby Franklin on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:50 pm

Steve Rowe wrote:It's never been any different, there are just more people doing it. Most want 'fake' - they like dressing up, playing at something that's close to home and a social gathering with 'nice' people. They don't want real - those that do search it out. - it's always been like that.


i agree with you


shaolin-do is still going strong...
and there are lots of casual schools out there filling the need for people's social needs

here in taiwan -- its mostly old people practicing in the parks for health
the real stuff exists-- but even those people still have day jobs or are now retired
the large organizations are filled with people with certificates but without skill...

the same thing in the MMA scene
there are some professionals
but the pack is filled with fan boys in a tapout tee who would puke after 5 min of pad work-- god forbid someone punched them in the head...

and its always been like this

people still get benefit from practice

and mocking something in person or the internet won't change anything
just stroke the ego...

the people i have known who are the most obsessed with fighting and keeping it real..
were usually only mildly skilled at best
but their talk impressed people with less skill...

the people i have known who liked to fight
did not talk about it much-- they would rather be beating someone .. lol
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