Marin Spivack interview

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Dmitri on Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:48 pm

Ah yes, a thread about Moling's interview moves on, naturally, to a discussion about whether MMA is a deadly fighting thing... RSF FTW! :D
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby johnwang on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:01 pm

When you start a thread, your own opinion is not important. You want to hear other's opinions.

A: Do you think ... is good?
B: He is good.
C: He is OK.
D: He is not good.
E: ...

Can we just treat this thread as a "survey" instead? Why do we need to argue?
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:12 pm

johnwang wrote:When you start a thread, your own opinion is not important. You want to hear other's opinions.

A: Do you think ... is good?
B: He is good.
C: He is OK.
D: He is not good.
E: ...

Can we just treat this thread as a "survey" instead? Why do we need to argue?
I agree.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Dmitri wrote:Ah yes, a thread about Moling's interview moves on, naturally, to a discussion about whether MMA is a deadly fighting thing... RSF FTW! :D
hi Dimitri, I can't control what other people question. So when other people are looking for answers in one way or the other, or if it was just negativity . It kind of brings the thread into a completely different direction than was intended.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:21 pm

johnwang wrote:Can we just treat this thread as a "survey" instead? Why do we need to argue?



But. but... if we do surveys instead of argumenting, how can we turn threads into off topic MMA discussions or find reasons to post silly images like this? ???

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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Bao wrote:
johnwang wrote:Can we just treat this thread as a "survey" instead? Why do we need to argue?



But. but... if we do surveys instead of argumenting, how can we turn threads into off topic MMA discussions or find reasons to post silly images like this? ???

Image

In a way it wasn't off topic though, because the subject of MMA not being actual fighting was brought up in the interview itself. I of course totally disagree with that statement, but I am very much impressed with the rest of the interview.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:15 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:It should be pointed out that, despite my disagreements with Willie in the past, I have always said that his taijiquan looked very good. Martin, while having some great photos, looks like a first-year student whose body is completely disconnected and uncoordinated. So, while his teacher may (or may not) be great, he has not demonstrated that he has any ability. Funny and highly edited videos don't prove anything. Neither do stories about sparing with dudes in China who must suck, considering the videos and evidence presented. Better check yourself before you try and present yourself as a "fighter" here in the States. And, the vids showing him hitting inanimate objects and plants didn't look that great. So clearly, Willie is in a better place to judge Chen Taijiquan, even if he rides the jock a bit (hey, we all like our own systems, or we wouldn't do them).

Now, there does seem to be a bit of hyperbole coming from Willie, but that's nothing new, and we should probably just take that with the grain.

As I said before, Marin has access and recognition from one of the best Chen teachers in the world. I don't see anyone questioning that. The rest just seems to be hate.

Also, thanks to Ken for the podcast.

Finally, don't confuse skill with character. I am not making any comments on character, but I think it is clear that Marin has some skill and continues to get better. He was always very polite to me and the only argument we ever had was about politics but we are both stubborn so that pretty much killed it. :P

Hold on there now.. You can say that my form didn't look good about three years ago when that video was shot, but I stand by my videos of hitting plants and inanimate objects. That's good stuff and the power one can generate after that type of training is scary. I can't fathom what you would have against putting more penetration into your strikes. The main reason I stopped doing Taijiquan is because I found that I was using the Xinyiliuhequan (amongst other arts) stuff almost exclusively when I sparred.

In my third instructional video you can see some of my line drills, which sure don't look disconnected and uncoordinated, despite what you may think of their martial value. Also, whilst it is true that I don't always have a lot of skilled people to choose from to spar with I have taken on some tough guys, both here and in the West. I may not have always won, but I learned and moved on. I don't think that I need to be a UFC champion to prove that what I train has merit.

I don't have a problem with Marin, but with those who worship him - especially his Fajin. Perhaps not a lot of people in the West can Fajin and the bar is low, but I'm not impressed. If no one made any grand claims about him I wouldn't be so critical, because in the end we are all slowly improving. I've made massive progress even in the last half year. I just have a really hard time getting videos onto Youtube from out here. Also, I don't make any grand claims about myself, other than that I have been studying full-time with a proper master for the past several years and that I spar regularly. That is all.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby aiasthewall on Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:48 pm

Just curious, in what specific ways is his fajin not good? What are the visual metrics by which fajin is judged? Aside, of course, from feeling the power generated.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Strange on Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Trick wrote:What level are Chen Xiaowang at ?


30 years ago, CXW came to singapore and did a newspaper interview.
He said that there is 5 levels in chen taiji.
at the time of the interview, he said he was at level 3
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:10 pm

which actually come from Ninjutsu


???

Come on, Willie. I stand up for you and then you just have to bring the ninja back into it. :'(
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:16 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:It should be pointed out that, despite my disagreements with Willie in the past, I have always said that his taijiquan looked very good. Martin, while having some great photos, looks like a first-year student whose body is completely disconnected and uncoordinated. So, while his teacher may (or may not) be great, he has not demonstrated that he has any ability. Funny and highly edited videos don't prove anything. Neither do stories about sparing with dudes in China who must suck, considering the videos and evidence presented. Better check yourself before you try and present yourself as a "fighter" here in the States. And, the vids showing him hitting inanimate objects and plants didn't look that great. So clearly, Willie is in a better place to judge Chen Taijiquan, even if he rides the jock a bit (hey, we all like our own systems, or we wouldn't do them).

Now, there does seem to be a bit of hyperbole coming from Willie, but that's nothing new, and we should probably just take that with the grain.

As I said before, Marin has access and recognition from one of the best Chen teachers in the world. I don't see anyone questioning that. The rest just seems to be hate.

Also, thanks to Ken for the podcast.

Finally, don't confuse skill with character. I am not making any comments on character, but I think it is clear that Marin has some skill and continues to get better. He was always very polite to me and the only argument we ever had was about politics but we are both stubborn so that pretty much killed it. :P

Hold on there now.. You can say that my form didn't look good about three years ago when that video was shot, but I stand by my videos of hitting plants and inanimate objects. That's good stuff and the power one can generate after that type of training is scary. I can't fathom what you would have against putting more penetration into your strikes. The main reason I stopped doing Taijiquan is because I found that I was using the Xinyiliuhequan (amongst other arts) stuff almost exclusively when I sparred.

In my third instructional video you can see some of my line drills, which sure don't look disconnected and uncoordinated, despite what you may think of their martial value. Also, whilst it is true that I don't always have a lot of skilled people to choose from to spar with I have taken on some tough guys, both here and in the West. I may not have always won, but I learned and moved on. I don't think that I need to be a UFC champion to prove that what I train has merit.

I don't have a problem with Marin, but with those who worship him - especially his Fajin. Perhaps not a lot of people in the West can Fajin and the bar is low, but I'm not impressed. If no one made any grand claims about him I wouldn't be so critical, because in the end we are all slowly improving. I've made massive progress even in the last half year. I just have a really hard time getting videos onto Youtube from out here. Also, I don't make any grand claims about myself, other than that I have been studying full-time with a proper master for the past several years and that I spar regularly. That is all.


Okay, fair enough. I will withdraw and hold judgement until I see some newer stuff. I accept that I was basing my opinion on old footage and I certainly believe that a lot of progress can be made in the time frame you mention.

I also don't have any major problems with your last paragraph. I would say, however, that my general take on your initial comments on Marin were unessisarily disparaging. That's the main reason I waded in. Also, I do think Willie has some nice taiji, although he had to go and bring the UFC and ninja into it again. lol. If you talk long enough, something stupid will surely come out.

Also, as Bruce pointed out, no one got banned from EF for talking about MMA. Willie, what was your handle? And which incarnation of EF are you talking about? Bruce, Meynard, and others were all up on that stuff going waaaay back. They may have been around less under EF 2.0 so maybe you showed up there and reinvented the wheel? Still, I don't remember you from that time period either, I and I probably would.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
which actually come from Ninjutsu


???

Come on, Willie. I stand up for you and then you just have to bring the ninja back into it. :'(
I appreciate you jumping in, I really do. Well it was the truth. The ninja shit got me in all kinds of trouble at empty flower. And it obviously still does. LOL! But I swear to you it was good stuff and I found an old DVD that is all scratched up but it still has a little bit of that same video that I was sending to either Malaysia or Thailand when it was shanghaied over to empty flower. I'm trying to see if I can figure out a way to at least recover a couple of bits and pieces of that original video and I will post it if I can. It's not so stupid as it sounds you will see. I wasn't at empty flower for a very long time in fact the only reason why I was there at all was because somebody had posted my video as a topic and I found out about it. I don't remember what my original handle was but after I was banned for life I tried to get back on under a new name and the handle was Black Sheep. They checked my IP address and then I was banned again within hours.
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:41 pm

I was mostly just kidding you. The ninja thing is sort of our ongoing fling. ;D
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:It should be pointed out that, despite my disagreements with Willie in the past, I have always said that his taijiquan looked very good. Martin, while having some great photos, looks like a first-year student whose body is completely disconnected and uncoordinated. So, while his teacher may (or may not) be great, he has not demonstrated that he has any ability. Funny and highly edited videos don't prove anything. Neither do stories about sparing with dudes in China who must suck, considering the videos and evidence presented. Better check yourself before you try and present yourself as a "fighter" here in the States. And, the vids showing him hitting inanimate objects and plants didn't look that great. So clearly, Willie is in a better place to judge Chen Taijiquan, even if he rides the jock a bit (hey, we all like our own systems, or we wouldn't do them).

Now, there does seem to be a bit of hyperbole coming from Willie, but that's nothing new, and we should probably just take that with the grain.

As I said before, Marin has access and recognition from one of the best Chen teachers in the world. I don't see anyone questioning that. The rest just seems to be hate.

Also, thanks to Ken for the podcast.

Finally, don't confuse skill with character. I am not making any comments on character, but I think it is clear that Marin has some skill and continues to get better. He was always very polite to me and the only argument we ever had was about politics but we are both stubborn so that pretty much killed it. :P

Hold on there now.. You can say that my form didn't look good about three years ago when that video was shot, but I stand by my videos of hitting plants and inanimate objects. That's good stuff and the power one can generate after that type of training is scary. I can't fathom what you would have against putting more penetration into your strikes. The main reason I stopped doing Taijiquan is because I found that I was using the Xinyiliuhequan (amongst other arts) stuff almost exclusively when I sparred.

In my third instructional video you can see some of my line drills, which sure don't look disconnected and uncoordinated, despite what you may think of their martial value. Also, whilst it is true that I don't always have a lot of skilled people to choose from to spar with I have taken on some tough guys, both here and in the West. I may not have always won, but I learned and moved on. I don't think that I need to be a UFC champion to prove that what I train has merit.

I don't have a problem with Marin, but with those who worship him - especially his Fajin. Perhaps not a lot of people in the West can Fajin and the bar is low, but I'm not impressed. If no one made any grand claims about him I wouldn't be so critical, because in the end we are all slowly improving. I've made massive progress even in the last half year. I just have a really hard time getting videos onto Youtube from out here. Also, I don't make any grand claims about myself, other than that I have been studying full-time with a proper master for the past several years and that I spar regularly. That is all.


Okay, fair enough. I will withdraw and hold judgement until I see some newer stuff. I accept that I was basing my opinion on old footage and I certainly believe that a lot of progress can be made in the time frame you mention.

I also don't have any major problems with your last paragraph. I would say, however, that my general take on your initial comments on Marin were unessisarily disparaging. That's the main reason I waded in. Also, I do think Willie has some nice taiji, although he had to go and bring the UFC and ninja into it again. lol. If you talk long enough, something stupid will surely come out.

Also, as Bruce pointed out, no one got banned from EF for talking about MMA. Willie, what was your handle? And which incarnation of EF are you talking about? Bruce, Meynard, and others were all up on that stuff going waaaay back. They may have been around less under EF 2.0 so maybe you showed up there and reinvented the wheel? Still, I don't remember you from that time period either, I and I probably would.

My comments were disparaging because we've had this same discussion before about this Marin guy and I was of the same opinion, then. I feel bad, because possibly he isn't even making any grand claims about himself and these delusional people have nothing to do with him, but I really dislike his expression of Fajin. He tenses up before issuing, there is way too much excess movement which makes him look like a spazz, the power isn't being issued very... accurately... into a target area (depending on the technique), it isn't crisp enough (as in shooting out and then retracting for the next attack) and, perhaps worst of all, he is "pulling his punches", as in not extending them far enough to where they would hit an opponent and penetrate. All of these things could be fixed with additional training, but, as is, it looks like someone that hasn't used this stuff in actual sparring. Whether what he is doing is Taijiquan or Xingyiquan or Baguazhang isn't relative. The same rules apply. I've seen far worse, though, and he is further along than most, but to say that he is in the top 10 in America seems highly dubious to say the least, even laughable.

I have no idea what Willie's Taijiquan looks like, only that he can't back up anything he says with valid arguments. "You're wrong, wrong wrong" does not cut it. Not all Taijiquan practitioners can Fajin. Certainly far less than other arts. Many focus on wrestling and Qinna, where it can be applied quite differently than with striking. There are very specific methods to train it, but it's critical to be supervised by a proper master during the many stages (and pressure-tested in sparring) or it will end up messy like in the video posted in the OP.

Anyways, thanks for being civil and giving me some benefit of the doubt. I won't make a video on Fajin, though, as my Master has prohibited me from doing so. I'm currently working on a swordsmanship video, in which all of these things, including Fajin and sensitivity, a la Taijiquan, should be apparent, to those in-the-know, as I'm sure that you are aware that empty-handed training and weapons training were done in conjunction until recently. We spar hard, every single day. I think that you'll enjoy it. :)
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Re: Marin Spivack interview

Postby BruceP on Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:06 am

Yeah, Marvin

More people died in bicycle races than MMA since 2007. Even more fatalities in soccer matches...err...fights, than MMA over the same number of years. What's your point?
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