Compress and Release

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Compress and Release

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 pm

Both Baji and XingYi use the "compress (inhale) and release (exhale)" power generation method. As long as you can separate which part of the move is used for compressing - inhale, and which part of the move is used for releasing - exhale. If you coordinate all the compressing as 1 move, and coordinate all the releasing as the 2nd move. No matter how complicate a move may be, it can be as simple as just 2 moves.

Do you think this method can be apply in all CMA systems? Your thought?
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:57 pm

I think the idea can be applied to CMA systems. I don't think that it's necessary to focus on whether one is inhaling or exhaling --in a fight. Um, instead, imo, the breathing should be as natural as appropriate. For ex., when facing a barrage of fast punches, it's not practical to think in terms of 1 - 2.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:48 pm

In the XYQ, Tongbeiquan and Taijiquan that I practice relaxed breathing comes natural from of the practice of the specific "visualizations" that is done, and that is not about thinking on breath in and out or compress an release
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:10 pm

Trick wrote:In the XYQ, Tongbeiquan and Taijiquan that I practice relaxed breathing comes natural from of the practice of the specific "visualizations" that is done, and that is not about thinking on breath in and out or compress an release

In XingYi, you use "fast (short) inhale and slow (long) exhale" method. This is different from the natural breathing. It's like when you swim (or fight), the window that you can inhale is very short. You want to inhale as fast as you can. You then try to keep air in your lung as long as you can (like diving).

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Re: Compress and Release

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:54 pm

The breath patterns/intervals comes as an natural "byproduct" from the practice with the "correct" visualizations. Ideal would be that after let's say a practice of 1000 piquan the breath should be deep and relaxed, the puls might be high but not the breath
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:05 am

"...In XingYi, you use "fast (short) inhale and slow (long) exhale" method. This is different from the natural breathing. It's like when you swim (or fight), the window that you can inhale is very short. You want to inhale as fast as you can. You then try to keep air in your lung as long as you can (like diving)...."

is not connected with the system which you practicing` actually?
As I remember my old karate days - breathing pattern was kinda different - short breathing out with the punch,
you may add optional KIAI during exhalation.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:42 am

Every inch of your body and posture has an effect on breath.
Air fuels movement.
I think it's better to unhitch the breath from the movement so as to enable a more constant supply of air.

Some times exhaling is good to add power.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby KEND on Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:22 am

In XYC in the beginning you observe the breath , using reverse breath on the intake[contract] and natural on the out[expand] Once the pattern is established I was taught to ignore the breath and let the mind expand or contract body[chest and abdominal cavities] I have taught this to other styles and Filipino stick practitioners, it works
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby johnwang on Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:40 am

In

- striking, your blocking is compress, your punch is release.
- throwing, your clinch is compress, your throw is release.

I do find this method has difficulty to apply on Chang/Yang Taiji. When I do cloud hand, it's difficult to separate which part is compress and which part is release.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:53 pm

johnwang wrote:In

- striking, your blocking is compress, your punch is release.
- throwing, your clinch is compress, your throw is release.

I do find this method has difficulty to apply on Chang/Yang Taiji. When I do cloud hand, it's difficult to separate which part is compress and which part is release.


Differentiating substantial and insubstantial is half the battle! :)

With cloud hands you've got both sides of the body doing different things. While some is compressing other is releasing. Every form in the form is like this to some degree in my opinion.

It's like coffee when you pour the cream before you stir it.

That's part of why always locking the breath to the movement is limiting imho. There's a time and place to use it but not all the time
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:55 pm

Breath is a circulation not a coordination. The concept described here is basic and beginner level.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby HotSoup on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Trick wrote:In the XYQ, Tongbeiquan and Taijiquan that I practice relaxed breathing comes natural from of the practice of the specific "visualizations" that is done, and that is not about thinking on breath in and out or compress an release


Could you elaborate on the visualizations part? What exactly do you visualize and how does it relate to the movement and breathing?
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby johnwang on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:49 pm

In the following Zuan Quan, the 1st part is compress. The release part starts from his back foot slides next to his leading foot. He then steps that foot forward and punches out at the same time. He uses slow compress and fast release method here.

Some people believe that for

- combat training, you should use slow compress and fast release (as shown in the following clip).
- health training, you should use fast compress and slow release (I'm still not quite convinced on this yet).

Last edited by johnwang on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:20 pm

johnwang wrote:In

- striking, your blocking is compress, your punch is release.
- throwing, your clinch is compress, your throw is release.

I do find this method has difficulty to apply on Chang/Yang Taiji. When I do cloud hand, it's difficult to separate which part is compress and which part is release.
that's because there is none. Cloud hands is a constant split energy. That means it is sort of like a high-power fan blade, an auger, a piece of farm equipment, a hydraulic shear. Like sticking your hand into a running machine. Then add life force, equals Chi , a living machine or a mechanically powered entity, like a squid with gears
Last edited by willie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Compress and Release

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:41 pm

Over time the breath develops from a piston firing combustion engine, to a high performance turbine. The force does not seek the breath, The force is the energy generated.
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