No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:24 am

My late friend bob Caputo taught me to use the Tibetan Dorje,lightning bolt
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:26 am

The dorge, kongou, or lightning bolt certainly has some uses as a weapon in common with the kubotan, koppo, etc. The form factor, though, is significantly different. In its basic form the kubotan is no more than a bit of stick a little longer than your hand is wide.

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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:07 pm

If a Filipino stick fighter finds himself without a deep concealment weapon he merely finds a bough about the diameter of his thumb and trims it to length. He is not now well armed, but he is not unarmed, by some stretch.

These are Fancy Dan examples. Something from the hedge trimmings will work as well as these.

Image

Long ago and far away, I watched a training video in which a Brit instructor explained how to smash through a (stopped or slowly moving) car's window and immobilize the driver using a kubotan. (Hammer fist through the window, wrist lock on the driver, then drop and pull. The presenter was a thoroughly nasty chap; I think I would have liked him.)
Last edited by klonk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby edededed on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:59 pm

klonk wrote:Another thing I do not recall seeing in CMA (but, once again, I could have missed what was there) is a short stick used to add the power of persuasion to a wrist hold. It is an important aspect of kubotan and very effective in the right situation.


Are you referring to qinna with the short stick? CMA does definitely have these, although they are uncommonly seen.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:01 pm

edededed wrote:
klonk wrote:Another thing I do not recall seeing in CMA (but, once again, I could have missed what was there) is a short stick used to add the power of persuasion to a wrist hold. It is an important aspect of kubotan and very effective in the right situation.


Are you referring to qinna with the short stick? CMA does definitely have these, although they are uncommonly seen.


I do not know, ed^4. There is a confusion of terms here. Short stick may refer to several things. A kubotan or the like is shorter than the distance from your palm heel to your fingertip.

If we, instead, are talking about a stick perhaps as long as your forearm, or elbow to fingers, those quinna holds are not quite so uncommon as you say. Every cop in America knows the trick where the baton (police nightstick) is under the wrist and over the elbow. Some, perhaps, use it to excess.

I am talking about a stick perhaps six to six and half inches long. Its wrist holds are just bone pressure to produce pain and control the extremity.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:11 pm

The folded fan is also another pocket stick
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:12 pm

wayne hansen wrote:The folded fan is also another pocket stick


Harrumph. Speak for yourself on that.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:34 pm

Why would it not be
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby Trick on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:51 pm

klonk wrote:
edededed wrote:
klonk wrote:Another thing I do not recall seeing in CMA (but, once again, I could have missed what was there) is a short stick used to add the power of persuasion to a wrist hold. It is an important aspect of kubotan and very effective in the right situation.


Are you referring to qinna with the short stick? CMA does definitely have these, although they are uncommonly seen.


I do not know, ed^4. There is a confusion of terms here. Short stick may refer to several things. A kubotan or the like is shorter than the distance from your palm heel to your fingertip.

If we, instead, are talking about a stick perhaps as long as your forearm, or elbow to fingers, those quinna holds are not quite so uncommon as you say. Every cop in America knows the trick where the baton (police nightstick) is under the wrist and over the elbow. Some, perhaps, use it to excess.

I am talking about a stick perhaps six to six and half inches long. Its wrist holds are just bone pressure to produce pain and control the extremity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:37 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Why would it not be


You're right of course, but I must have my little jokes.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:41 pm

I regret this isn't in English, but it does show something of the flavor of the weapon.

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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:43 am

klonk wrote:The dorge, kongou, or lightning bolt certainly has some uses as a weapon in common with the kubotan, koppo, etc. The form factor, though, is significantly different. In its basic form the kubotan is no more than a bit of stick a little longer than your hand is wide.

Image


That's just one ornate design, they also come in blunted, pointy, and rounded end varieties much more exactly like what you are posting here
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:46 pm

edededed wrote:
klonk wrote:Another thing I do not recall seeing in CMA (but, once again, I could have missed what was there) is a short stick used to add the power of persuasion to a wrist hold. It is an important aspect of kubotan and very effective in the right situation.


Are you referring to qinna with the short stick? CMA does definitely have these, although they are uncommonly seen.


This kuboton how-to manual from archive.org was scanned badly. There are stripes on the photos. But it is good enough to give an idea of the types of holds used with the weapon. Are the holds similar to what you have in mind?


https://ia800202.us.archive.org/14/item ... niques.pdf
Last edited by klonk on Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby edededed on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:38 am

I thought that they looked quite different. (But I am no expert, maybe others have other experiences?)

The kubotan seems to use a lot of having two thumbs on the opposite side of the kubotan - strikes me as rather difficult to use effectively (are thumbs so strong?), but I guess that people have used it successfully in law enforcement before!
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Re: No palm stick/kubotan in TCMA?

Postby klonk on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:29 pm

edededed wrote:I thought that they looked quite different. (But I am no expert, maybe others have other experiences?)

The kubotan seems to use a lot of having two thumbs on the opposite side of the kubotan - strikes me as rather difficult to use effectively (are thumbs so strong?), but I guess that people have used it successfully in law enforcement before!


You saw that correctly. It is a central technique. Like a lot of things in MA, there is a little bit of a trick to it.

You do not just push forward with your thumbs, you at the same time roll inward with your fingers (which are holding the kubotan). This enhances the effect.

The same inward-rolling motion is useful for the holds of one thumb opposite, used against fingers or ears.

These are pain compliance holds (and very painful) but may be less effective on the self-sedated subject who is feeling no pain.
Last edited by klonk on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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