wiesiek wrote:nobody mention meditation yet,
What these two Chinese Masters have interpreted for us from the Ancient forms are how to harness, through arduous Kung Fu (hard work), the basic energies of internal martial arts and to appreciate the power applied Taijitu strategies in body mechanics, mental attitude, combative encounters and overall health. They also give us the foundation for preferring to remain standing in a no-holds-barred combative match when equal peers engage each other. But in the West we must search hard for the training form to accomplish this feat. Perhaps the facts can be found in Greek combative history.
Our modern interpretation of Greek Pankration is also steeped in ancient tradition but the forms are lost to all but the most researched and dilligent. The coreographers of the movie Troy are the most notable Martial Artists who give us some possibilities of the capabilities of the Greek Warrior through the exploits of Achillies. In the West we have salvaged through recorded Greek accounts of great Olympians as far back as 648 BC, the taxtics and techniques of alledgedly unbeatable Illusive Pugilists namely Arrhichion, Dioxippus, Polydamas of Skotoussa and Theagenes. From the mythical ancestry of Herecles and Theseus these warriors who integrated, what we in modernity call, Boxing, Kickboxing and Wrestling give the Modern Western Warrior the foundation and legitimacy of no-holds combative skills that is truely fearsome. But what is very interesting is that the forms that teach how they became so prodigious is missing even as these tactics and techniques and even some strategies have survived. The fall of Rome probably had something to do with it.
Still after researching the biographes of some of the warriors mentioned it seems that the observer of their exploits and the study of the rules of their competitions there are indications that these fighters had knowledge of Yin and Yang and the philosophies of Lao. The exploits of Alexander the Great, Merchant Trade and the application of a slave class produced in part by conquering peoples would have facilitated such knowledge. Pankration flourished through its transference from Greek to Roman culture until well into the beginning of Byzantium Rome. Perhaps the West and East melded Tatics and Strategy in those times concerning unarmed and single combat.
Perhaps what we are discussing and doing now in modern times is a recreation, due to the volitile and interconnected world we live in at present, of ancient civilization. Perhaps what and how we inegrate now is what and how things were integrated then but on a larger scale.
I have read that, although knowledge of grappling was essential, the idea of going to the ground in ancient Pankration was discouraged when combatants were of high-level but equal skill. So mostly, Pankration Warriors were Strikers even as the Pankration situations, Ano for standing and Kato for Ground, were classified which indicates differences in training regimines. A wikipedia source is necessary here:
Remaining standing versus going to the ground
The decision to remain standing or go to the ground obviously depended on the relative strengths of the athlete, and differed between anō and katō pankration. However, there are indications that staying on one's feet was generally considered a positive thing, while touching the knee(s) to the ground or being put to the ground was overall considered disadvantageous. In fact, in antiquity as today, falling to one's knee(s) was a metaphor for coming to a disadvantage and putting oneself at risk of losing the fight, as argued persuasively by Michael B. Poliakoff.,[10]
This factoid is an interesting point when the student of the recent evolution of MMA has begun to exemplify the same conclusions as our ancient ancestors. Tai Chi strategies like the ones mentioned above are now becoming more of an attractive model to study, if not for the Eastern tactics (style) then for the application of strategy to the efficiency of Western (Styles) tactics of Boxing, Kickboxing and Grappling. Lets just say for cultural reasons of familiarzation... lol...
Still how training was conducted in Pankration, especially concerning an internal Martial Art Slant and the forms necessary to reach the level of skill necessary to fight as the ancient Pankrationists did has eluded me. Perhaps I need more study of Greek and Roman literature and ceramic art; however, it is clear at present that the classics of combative Taijitu knowledge is available and applicable to the current vacuum of Form training in modern Pankration which we call MMA Competition. I will keep researching the western sources and wonder if you all will do the same given the thread.
I expressed pretty much the same views on it about a year ago here when Greg brought it up:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25377&p=439337&hilit=hagakure&sid=42fd98ce8b999449d21ba619df9eaae5#p439337
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