Yang Zhaopeng

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:38 am

GrahamB wrote:Image

That's quite good form there, but the important question that has to be asked here - does the Dude got FAJIN or not
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby willie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:11 am

C.J.W. wrote:
willie wrote:Yang luchan did not figure out a damn thing. The martial side was left out. the fajin which is created by the Dantian is just part of what was left out. So CJW 's comment only shows how incorrect he is. everyone who goes against this very core principle only shows that they do not have martial Tai Chi.


Did I just felt an itch in my ear? ;D Just because fajin isn't expressed in the form practice doesn't mean it isn't there, my friend.

If you look at Bagua, Cheng style also favors smooth movements like Yang Taiji, while Yin style incorporates fajin. Would you say that Cheng style is less martially effective than Yin?

Granted, it's true that the vast majority of Yang stylists don't know a damn thing about fighting and are, in general, much less interested in combat applications than Chen stylists. The main reason being that the soft movements and appearance of Yang styles tend to attract folks who are more keen on the spiritual, cultural, and health-promoting aspects of the art. (There are Yang stylists who can fight, just relatively very few and far between given the large number of practitioners.)

In IMA, what you see isn't always what you get. What appears strong may actually be weak, and what seems weak may actually be......VERY strong.

You may have this post wrong as well. First off, in my opinion it's easier to perform Yang Style so obviously Yang style should win in the beginning stages. However, after that will be a completely different story.

There is just as many Chen stylists doing Tai Chi just for health and spiritual reasons as in Yang Style. Most of the Chen stylist that I met are not interested in martial application either.

And I never said that soft couldn't be strong

In private the conversations were quite different then what the other students were told. If you If you get my drift.

I'm done with this thread. It has become pointless.
Last edited by willie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:37 am

willie wrote: I'm not bashing yang Style, I'm simply telling you the truth and you can't handle it.

I train Chang (came from Yang) and I don't train Chen. But I agree with you here. I didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. My Chang Taiji teacher didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. My long fist teacher didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. Did we all have bad Yang Taiji teachers to start with?

I once added Baji Fajin into my Chang Taiji. One day my teacher asked me why did I do that for. I told him that since I didn't see any Chang Fajin, I just borrowed the Baji Fajin. My teacher then said, "Whatever should not belong to Yang Taiji should not be in it." I stopped adding Baji Fajin into my Chang Taiji after that.

Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming added white crane Fajin into his Yang Taiji. He learned Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher (I did not learn Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher). There was no Fajin when my long fist teacher did his Taiji. So Dr Yang's Fajin must came from his white crane (This is my opinion only. I have not asked Dr, Yang on this).

My SC teacher's Chang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



My long fist teacher's Yang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



My Chang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



Dr Yang's Taiji (there are Fajin at 0.29 - 0.36).

Last edited by johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby willie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:11 am

johnwang wrote:
willie wrote: I'm not bashing yang Style, I'm simply telling you the truth and you can't handle it.

I train Chang (came from Yang) and I don't train Chen. But I agree with you here. I didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. My Chang Taiji teacher didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. My long fist teacher didn't learn Yang Taiji Fajin. Did we all have bad Yang Taiji teachers to start with?

I once added Baji Fajin into my Chang Taiji. One day my teacher asked me why did I do that for. I told him that since I didn't see any Chang Fajin, I just borrowed the Baji Fajin. My teacher then said, "Whatever should not belong to Yang Taiji should not be in it." I stopped adding Baji Fajin into my Chang Taiji after that.

Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming added white crane Fajin into his Yang Taiji. He learned Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher (I did not learn Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher). There was no Fajin when my long fist teacher did his Taiji. So Dr Yang's Fajin must came from his white crane (This is my opinion only. I have not asked Dr, Yang on this).

My SC teacher's Chang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



My long fist teacher's Yang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



My Chang Taiji (no Fajin in it).



Dr Yang's Taiji (there are Fajin at 0.29 - 0.36).


John I really enjoyed your post. In my opinion it is a lot more than just the fajin that is missing.

My first Yang style teacher learned most of his Yang style from doctor yang as well. He often displayed his dislike towards Chen style and towards fajin. He felt that it was only for bullies. He also stated to me several times in private that Fajin, as demonstrated in chen-style does not work. I believed him for years and followed that path. The yang style that he taught me absolutely complimented all of my other martial art training. But if you remember the conversation with GlenD , he spoke of the shield and the spear side of internal Arts. He was correct. What I truly had from my yang style teacher was the shield side only. Of course just like everybody else I had not realized that until I met a legitimate high level Chen practitioner, who had became my Sifu. Come to find out my yang style teacher was completely wrong and Prejudice without even knowing it and that was because his teachers were the same way. All of the high-powered fajin strikes and grappling moves in Chen Style work. It's just difficult to find somebody who truly has it.
Last edited by willie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:34 am

willie wrote:All of the high-powered fajin strikes and grappling moves in Chen Style work. It's just difficult to find somebody who truly has it.

What's the difference between a CMA style that has Fajin and a CMA style that does not?

- A long fist teacher will tell you that if you have trained the system long enough, you will understand Fajin.
- A Baji, Chen Taiji, XYLH teacher will tell you that if you have trained the Fajin drills, you will understand Fajin in 3 months.

In other words, a CMA system that doesn't have Fajin drills is not a good Fajin system.

I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby RobP3 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:36 am

I don't have a horse in this race any more, but the Yang Family lineage people I learned from taught fa-jing drills. Erle Montaigue was also big on FJ, though I understand his lineage is open to question
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:41 am

What is Dr.Yang Ywing Ming's TJQ linage?
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:42 am

willie wrote:In my opinion it is a lot more than just the fajin that is missing.

Of course the other missing element is the "leg skill" such as sweep, cut, hook, break, horse back kick, lift, twist, spring, bite, scoop, sticky lift, .... But Taiji guys try not to talk about this.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:43 am

Trick wrote:What is Dr.Yang Ywing Ming's TJQ linage?

Yang Chen-Fu -> Han Ching-Tang -> Li Mao-Ching -> Dr.Yang Ywing Ming

I didn't learn Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher Li Mao-Ching. Even if I'm Dr. Yang's senior long fist brother, our Taiji came from different teacher.
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:49 am

johnwang wrote:- A Baji, Chen Taiji, XYLH teacher will tell you that if you have trained the Fajin drills, you will understand Fajin in 3 months.

Is that fajin drills in thin air or on objects/sparring partners?
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:52 am

Trick wrote:Is that fajin drills in thin air or on objects/sparring partners?

I believe it's "Fajin into the thin air".

Last edited by johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:54 am

johnwang wrote:
Trick wrote:What is Dr.Yang Ywing Ming's TJQ linage?

Yang Chen-Fu -> Han Ching-Tang -> Li Mao-Ching -> Dr.Yang Ywing Ming

I didn't learn Yang Taiji from my long fist teacher Li Mao-Ching. Even if I'm Dr. Yang's senior long fist brother, our Taiji came from different teacher.

Thanks, Yes I know your TJQ comes from your Shuai jiao teacher
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby willie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:30 am

johnwang wrote:
Trick wrote:Is that fajin drills in thin air or on objects/sparring partners?

I believe it's "Fajin into the thin air".


Do you think that it would be in thin air if you went and stood in front of him? The other example that Windwalker keeps foolishly presenting to the board, is only because CXW was being nice. That guy would be dead.

Without explaining myself any further I would like to highlight a little bit of the conversation between me and my son last night about this thread and the current state of delusion. Almost every Yang Style practitioner only has half of the art, The Shield side, this causes on in Balance inside them. They become too soft to yielding to gentle. Always searching for the feminine side of the yin-yang symbol. The question is why is this happening? It is most likely because they only have half of that yin-yang symbol in the first place. And because they don't want to entertain the hard side of Tai Chi, then they try to replace the hard side of the Yin yang symbol with the soft side. So now that the soft side has generically replaced the hardside, they need to figure out what the soft side is. And that is most likely where all the delusion of non-touch comes from. So instead of having Tai Chi which they do not have. They have replaced the hard with the soft and then tried to become even softer to non-touch because the system cannot rebalance itself. It's like insanity or something
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby johnwang on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:59 am

willie wrote:Do you think that it would be in thin air if you went and stood in front of him?

I like to train my Fajin on my heavy bag. this way, I can feel the counter force that come back from the heavy bag. I can then use the counter force to examine my body structure.

When you hit an object, the counter force may

- push your body back. this is normal and correct.
- bend your elbow or shoulder joint, and collapse your structure. This is bad and wrong.

By hitting into the thin air, you won't be able to check on your structure when receiving a counter force.
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Re: Yang Zhaopeng

Postby charles on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:02 pm

willie wrote:Almost every Yang Style practitioner only has half of the art...


As does nearly every other practitioner of Taijiquan, including Chen style. In short, regardless of what they are taught, most don't get beyond beginner/advanced-beginner levels.

You quoted me quoting Chen Xiaowang who stated that very few Chen stylists get beyond 1.5 out of 5. So, for discussion purposes, let's say that Chen practitioners get both halves of the art. Perhaps they do but, according to the former head of the style, most don't get very far with it. That's not much different from any other style of Taijiquan, regardless of how many halves they learn. Again, the bottom line is that very few practitioners of any style of Taijiquan attain high-level skills at it. If one can find a teacher who has high-level skills and is willing to teach them, one should consider oneself fortunate.

I've had as many bad Chen teachers as I have bad Yang teachers, some famous, some not. That one practices/learns Chen style is no guarantee of superiority or a deeper level of teaching.
Last edited by charles on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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