Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby wiesiek on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:37 am

Little late, however if I may:
photography example is all way bad,
first, and most important- the photo-art is kinda of >automatic<, - I mean :
you just pres the button to get the piece.
Speakin` so, : most important part left for you is - the composition - what you can see thru the window ;),
there are rules, of course, which can be learned,
BUT
if you don`t have some >talent</ gift, it will not help too much, you never reach THE Art level.

My friend was student of the NYC most famous photo school. He never learned to do it right /in term of composition/.
Unbelievable ,
but
from hundreds of shots from very interesting places /he travel a lot around the world/,no more than five fingers was needed to count good ones!
Suppose, not only my opinion /was to polite to express it loudly/, `cause he was unable to reach professional market.
joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby GrahamB on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:10 am

"Is Xu (MMA) vs Wei Lei (tai chi) an example of the Dunning Kruger effect? Wei over estimated his "martial arts" skills, maybe from the lack of actual fighting. Other examples would include tai chi or chi fails."

I think Lei successfully learned his skill... however his skill appeared to be useless when faced with a real attacker. I don't think that's Dunning Kruger - it's more like being deluded.
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby marvin8 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:42 am

GrahamB wrote:"Is Xu (MMA) vs Wei Lei (tai chi) an example of the Dunning Kruger effect? Wei over estimated his "martial arts" skills, maybe from the lack of actual fighting. Other examples would include tai chi or chi fails."

I think Lei successfully learned his skill... however his skill appeared to be useless when faced with a real attacker. I don't think that's Dunning Kruger - it's more like being deluded.

Well, delusion is a part of the Dunning Kruger effect. I thought Morris' article fit right in with your title thread. So, I was somewhat surprised at your statement. No worries.

From The Incompetence Delusion – Dunning-Kruger Effect, https://rdsaint.wordpress.com/2015/02/0 ... er-effect/:
Richard Saint on February 8, 2015 wrote:The more I live, the more I learn. The more I learn, the more I realise the less I know” – Michel Legrand

“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”
—William Shakespeare, As You Like It

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias whereby incompetent individuals have a delusional sense of superiority, mistakenly rating their abilities far higher than is actually the case. Professor David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University observed the peculiar phenomenon when they asked undergraduate students who were finishing up coursework and a final exam to each rate their own performance and ability, which would then be compared to their actual scores. . . .
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby GrahamB on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:46 am

Maybe it does. I don't know. I enjoyed the article anyway.
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby marvin8 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:22 am

Steve James wrote:
Bottom line: if you want to go swimming, you’ve got to get wet. Sooner or later, you’ve got to start fighting at some level. It can’t remain academic if you ultimately want to honestly call yourself a martial artist.


I'd never say that a martial artist is the same as a fighter. I'd agree that one has to fight to find out, but one can be a martial artist and avoid fighting.

I agree.

Steve James wrote:I also agree that theory won't help much in a fight, and I understand the author's point that many martial artists are theoreticians and philosophers. Well, that's like arguing that Musashi stopped being a martial artist when he wrote the Go Rin No Sho.

Are there people who've never raised a hand in anger who talk about ma theory, sure. So what? There are people who say they've won Medals of Honor. It's all about ego, straight out of the Wizard of Oz.

Theory and principles can be useful; as long as one doesn't have a delusional sense of superiority, mistakenly rating their abilities far higher than is actually the case, where it puts one in danger.
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:21 am

GrahamB wrote:"Is Xu (MMA) vs Wei Lei (tai chi) an example of the Dunning Kruger effect? Wei over estimated his "martial arts" skills, maybe from the lack of actual fighting. Other examples would include tai chi or chi fails."

I think Lei successfully learned his skill... however his skill appeared to be useless when faced with a real attacker. I don't think that's Dunning Kruger - it's more like being deluded.


I think that the Dunning Kruger effect have its place in this event. Lei hasn't really learned any skills. He is very much a con-man, a scoundrel with very little training, who has bragged about his skills and made performances to impress people. He has been so good at fooling and impress people, so he has started to believe that he really has skill. = No competence, All confidence. Seems like the Dunning Kruger formula for me.
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Re: Dunning Kruger effect and martial arts

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:43 am

Bao wrote:
GrahamB wrote:"Is Xu (MMA) vs Wei Lei (tai chi) an example of the Dunning Kruger effect? Wei over estimated his "martial arts" skills, maybe from the lack of actual fighting. Other examples would include tai chi or chi fails."

I think Lei successfully learned his skill... however his skill appeared to be useless when faced with a real attacker. I don't think that's Dunning Kruger - it's more like being deluded.


I think that the Dunning Kruger effect have its place in this event. Lei hasn't really learned any skills. He is very much a con-man, a scoundrel with very little training, who has bragged about his skills and made performances to impress people. He has been so good at fooling and impress people, so he has started to believe that he really has skill. = No competence, All confidence. Seems like the Dunning Kruger formula for me.

Are there any vid's of this Lei where he's doing the form?
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