whip or go through

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

whip or go through

Postby Squeeeez on Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:57 am

Some people/styles say that you should punch with a whipping effect, "stopping" just before the target.
Other people/styles say that you should punch "through" a target, as if it was not there.

What are your point of views about this?
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Steve Rowe on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:57 am

Each has it's own merits.

To punch through is a 'hit/push' where the recoil goes back to and then back to them in push.

To whip is to sting and can sometimes be too much on the surface.

I like the 'pinball' idea which leaves the energy in (normally the centre) of the target but withdraws fast enough to not absorb the recoil.
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Subitai on Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:45 pm

Squeeeez wrote:Some people/styles say that you should punch with a whipping effect, "stopping" just before the target.
Other people/styles say that you should punch "through" a target, as if it was not there.

What are your point of views about this?




Wait, wait....what now???? Who says to "STOP" just before the Target?????

I've never heard anyone say that....In terms of actually wanting to hurt someone or do damage. The very premise is holding back.

On a movie set or perhaps non fighting stuff like in a demo or like in Theater mabe....but otherwise a big nope!!!

I don't understand I guess....If you stand a guy up and literally "WHIP" his back (prisoner style), the whip doesn't stop just before the target.
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Bhassler on Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:07 pm

Different methods for different purposes-- it's not either/or.

Penetrating: The kind you use to break boards or kick in a door. It travels through the target as if to break it. This is the kind most practitioners think of when they speak about striking power.
Shockwave: The weapon lands and sticks. It is fired much like in penetrating impact, but it doesn’t try to go as deep. When it lands, it imparts the kinetic energy in a relatively large area.
Bouncing: The weapon hits and uses the impact to recoil quickly along the path it came. Think of it as throwing a ball at a wall to make it bounce back to you.
Ricochet: Similar to bouncing impact but instead of reversing the direction 180°, the weapon shoots off at a different angle, for instance 90°
Ripping: Picture it like slashing through a target with a sword. The weapon lands at an oblique angle, strikes the target and is then dragged across to come out the other end.

These categories are also not set in stone as there will be overlap between all of them depending on how you strike, the kind of weapon used, etc. But they’re practical to use for training purposes and determining how and why you use certain techniques.

http://www.wimsblog.com/2014/09/open-ha ... #more-6002
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Squeeeez on Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:20 pm

Ah, of course there are more than just two!
And Mr. Demeere's article is full of good information.
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Yeung on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:39 am

Squeeeez wrote:Some people/styles say that you should punch with a whipping effect, "stopping" just before the target.
Other people/styles say that you should punch "through" a target, as if it was not there.

What are your point of views about this?

In the martial sport of Pangration there is the rules about touch kick or punch to the head which is similar to a whipping effect. In reality we use it all the time when we are in absolute control just to demonstrate superiority.
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Trick on Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:11 am

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Re: whip or go through

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:25 am

Both exist in Chinese arts
Flapping energy(whipping) is done to the side
Penetrating energy to the front
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Re: whip or go through

Postby Trick on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 am

A whippy backfist to the front works well, but needs a follow up.....common in Tongbeiquan
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Re: whip or go through

Postby yeniseri on Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 am

Based on observation, "sensing" hands/body with, and of opponent, one decide on a route based on the aforementioned 'sense' of combat

Bhassler's rippping, penetrating, bouncing, etc/combinations are part and parcel of feeling out and closing with the 'enemy'. Someone on either side will miss a beat and when this happens, the fastest one to capitalize on the defect at that moment/timefrome will down the opponent. Again, it can work either way. If the fellow is 6'5'. 225lbs then there is no way for me to rip through his defense unless I am same or larger size... ;D
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Re: whip or go through

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:49 pm

I agree with Subitai. Never stop the punch. You can retract it quick, but not until after it has extended as far as it can go. Otherwise you won't hit shit.

With the whipping there can be no hesitation. If you have trained the proper power to accompany it your opponent will want to get the fuck out of the way!

I use several types of power generation. Why limit yourself? ;D
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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