Make your push into a throw

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Make your push into a throw

Postby johnwang on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:29 pm

If you already know how to push, to throw your opponent can be as simple as to add into your leg skill. For example, when your have right leg forward and your opponent has left leg forward,

1. You use your right hand to push on your opponent's left upper arm.
2. You step in left leg, use your left arm to wrap his right arm.
3. You use right leg to hook his left leg from inside.
4. When he lifts up his left leg, you drop your right foot behind his right ankle.
5. Your push at 1 can take him down right there.

The leg skill that you have just added in are:

- 合(He) - Inner hook,
- 掛(Gua) - Inner heel sweep.

This way, not only you can still train your push, you have also learned 2 new leg skills. Your thought?
Last edited by johnwang on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby klonk on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:26 pm

Hi John,

Take an antihistamine before you read my reply, and wait for it to take effect.
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There now. What you say is good technique! As always. I learn a lot from your posts.

However, quite often a pushed person will fall down anyway, if you angle your push diagonally downward. What you are trying to do is move his balance point while his foot stays in place.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:44 am

John, the way I was taught, "An" (what is translated as "push") really means something more like "push down" or 'the action of' pushing down. Anyway, why do you think "push hands" is called "tuishou" and not "anshou?" In Chinese, do people "tui" a car or "an" a car? I agree with your idea of throwing, but but isn't it more about pushing up?

In general, though, I think that throwing is fine for people young and fit enough to participate in sport. I think people would be interested in which specific movements from the form that you would use or compare to shuaijiao techniques.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Bao on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:22 am

Why not just trap and punch? Then you don’t need to throw. :P
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Trick on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:52 am

Bao wrote:Why not just trap and punch? Then you don’t need to throw. :P

Too easy 8-)
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:56 am

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:Why not just trap and punch? Then you don’t need to throw. :P

Too easy 8-)

How about a video? J W has provided videos from time to time.
Last edited by willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:26 am

johnwang wrote:This way, not only you can still train your push, you have also learned 2 new leg skills. Your thought?


Don't train to push, why would anyone train for that.
Train to hit, shock,break, or throw, each depending on contact time and or point of contact.

Leg skills are punching skills.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:45 am

windwalker wrote:
johnwang wrote:This way, not only you can still train your push, you have also learned 2 new leg skills. Your thought?


Don't train to push, why would anyone train for that.
Train to hit, shock,break, or throw, each depending on contact time and or point of contact.

Leg skills are punching skills.

Cool! Are we going to be able to see you do a video of this type of stuff?
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:51 am

willie wrote:
windwalker wrote:
johnwang wrote:This way, not only you can still train your push, you have also learned 2 new leg skills. Your thought?


Don't train to push, why would anyone train for that.
Train to hit, shock,break, or throw, each depending on contact time and or point of contact.

Leg skills are punching skills.

Cool! Are we going to be able to see you do a video of this type of stuff?


I've broken others arms in my time...borken means clean breaks on the Ulna accidently
through the contact point.

If you think training to push someone is good cool...

can you post a clip of fajin in use ?
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:53 am

Steve James wrote:John, the way I was taught, "An" (what is translated as "push") really means something more like "push down" or 'the action of' pushing down. Anyway, why do you think "push hands" is called "tuishou" and not "anshou?" In Chinese, do people "tui" a car or "an" a car? I agree with your idea of throwing, but but isn't it more about pushing up?

In general, though, I think that throwing is fine for people young and fit enough to participate in sport. I think people would be interested in which specific movements from the form that you would use or compare to shuaijiao techniques.


Correct An, is not a push movement, its a type of controlling force.
Think of holding a ball in water controlling where it can and can not go.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:59 am

windwalker wrote:
Don't train to push, why would anyone train for that.
Train to hit, shock,break, or throw, each depending on contact time and or point of contact.


I've broken others arms in my time...borken means clean breaks on the Ulna accidently
through the contact point.

If you think training to push someone is good cool...

can you post a clip of fajin in use ?

I didn't say anything about training to push.
Of course I can offer a video of fajin in use, I have already showed many many videos, where is yours?
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:06 am

willie wrote:Of course I can offer a video of fajin in use, I have already showed many many videos, where is yours?


lets be clear and honest.

You have shown demos nothing more.

The demos posted seem to accord with your experience
for others they may not....

JW talks about pushing maybe confusing what long and short force is, and why its trained. For most taiji people they use whats called long force in demos
to show and allow others to feel something with out damaging them. Often they get stuck in demo mode and never use or understand how to use whats called
"cold jin" or short power....
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:11 am

windwalker wrote:
willie wrote:Of course I can offer a video of fajin in use, I have already showed many many videos, where is yours?


lets be clear and honest.

You have shown demos nothing more.

The demos posted seem to accord with your experience
for others they may not....

JW talks about pushing maybe confusing what long and short force is, and why its trained. For most taiji people they use whats called long force in demos
to show and allow others to feel something with out damaging them. Often they get stuck in demo mode and never use or understand how to use whats called
"cold jin" or short power....

Okay well then let's be honest. I actually have so much power that I'm afraid to even try to use it.
But I'm quite content having you spread fake news.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:59 am

willie wrote:How about a video? J W has provided videos from time to time.

I don't have the exactly video. It's similar to this clip with the same

- left upper arm push,
- right arm wrap,
- left leg step in, and
- right leg inner hook.



But the finish will be like this.



IMO, this combo is so easy to use. When you use your right leg to hook your opponent's left leg up, your right foot will be closer to the ground than his left foot is. It will be easier for you to land your right foot behind his right foot before his left foot can drop back down onto the ground. In other words, you have natural timing advantage there.

If you can use inner hook to hook your opponent's leading leg into your arm, you can take him down much harder. CMA has many ways to obtain your opponent's "single leg". The "inner hook" is one of the many different skill.
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:58 am

John, because you argue that tcc doesn't have leg skills, how would you incorporate those skills into tcc? For ex., where would you put a stealing step in a tcc movement or sequence?
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