Make your push into a throw

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:42 pm

johnwang wrote:
willie wrote:How about a video? J W has provided videos from time to time.

I don't have the exactly video. It's similar to this clip with the same

- left upper arm push,
- right arm wrap,
- left leg step in, and
- right leg inner hook.



But the finish will be like this.



IMO, this combo is so easy to use. When you use your right leg to hook your opponent's left leg up, your right foot will be closer to the ground than his left foot is. It will be easier for you to land your right foot behind his right foot before his left foot can drop back down onto the ground. In other words, you have natural timing advantage there.

If you can use inner hook to hook your opponent's leading leg into your arm, you can take him down much harder. CMA has many ways to obtain your opponent's "single leg". The "inner hook" is one of the many different skill.

John, isn't that a clip of the Mongolian wrestlers? Those guys are wicked impressive with their ability to withstand being taken down. Obviously if that move worked against them, then it'll work against just about anyone
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:50 pm

windwalker wrote:
willie wrote:Of course I can offer a video of fajin in use, I have already showed many many videos, where is yours?


lets be clear and honest.

You have shown demos nothing more.

The demos posted seem to accord with your experience
for others they may not....

JW talks about pushing maybe confusing what long and short force is, and why its trained. For most taiji people they use whats called long force in demos
to show and allow others to feel something with out damaging them. Often they get stuck in demo mode and never use or understand how to use whats called
"cold jin" or short power....
I decided to revisit this post. First off, that is exactly what I do, short power. That is exactly what my sifu helped me to get. the videos that I posted we're not meant to impress people like you, they were meant for people who know what they were looking at.
Seeing how you brought up this entire line of questioning, why don't you post a video of yourself proving to me that you even know anything about the subject that shouldn't have been brought up in the first place?
willie

 

Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby everything on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:20 pm

how about this technique

Image
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:22 pm

willie wrote:why don't you post a video of yourself proving to me that you even know anything about the subject that shouldn't have been brought up in the first place?


Wow, I guess you didnt get it. The only proof that one has to prove is to themselves.

You can make this thread about "you" and keep going or your can contribute something
constructive to the thread.


JW started with asking a question assuming that people "push" for what ever reason.
People I know don't push they hit, all CMA progresses with the 3 ranges, how its dealt
with accords to method and style.

If you need to know anything about my back ground my site outlines it...
Even one has their own path,,,,,in finding their own answers. I found mine.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby everything on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:22 pm

almost looked like he used a leg, but he didn't

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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby everything on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:27 pm

one more nice one from rugby

Image

looks like maybe a toe is blocked, but at that point it didn't matter

he is a lot bigger, but arguably it looks like he uses a nice peng/lu, then an an.
Last edited by everything on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby willie on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:36 pm

windwalker wrote:
willie wrote:why don't you post a video of yourself proving to me that you even know anything about the subject that shouldn't have been brought up in the first place?


Wow, I guess you didnt get it. The only proof that one has to prove is to themselves.

You can make this thread about "you" and keep going or your can contribute something
constructive to the thread.
.

Windwalker, the board is already aware of the fact that you Harbor ill-will towards Chen Style. We already know that, Can we move on? I did offer something good to the thread by agreeing with John in this case. He provided a very good video of some really tough Mongolian wrestlers. You are the one that brought up the whole subject about short power.
willie

 

Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:06 pm

Steve James wrote:John, because you argue that tcc doesn't have leg skills, how would you incorporate those skills into tcc? For ex., where would you put a stealing step in a tcc movement or sequence?

The stealing step exist in Yang Taiji "fair lady work on shuttle". You can always add "leg skill" into Taiji through cross training. The "inner hook" can be added into "step back repulse monkey" nicely.

Last edited by johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:13 pm

Those are interesting examples.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby yeniseri on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:20 pm

Steve James wrote:John, because you argue that tcc doesn't have leg skills, how would you incorporate those skills into tcc? For ex., where would you put a stealing step in a tcc movement or sequence?


It is not an explicit training tool in present conditioning methodology. IN forward 'brush knee', one can add "stealing step" to effect an inner/outer hook.
I am not at J Wang's level but I have seen the late Zhang Dungsheng incorporate various 'additions' (to postures) when I was the dummy tool. So in many of my previous comments, I have always stated that if one learns taijiquan how it is presently taught, then the addition of 1-3 yeras of shuaijiao practice/conditioning can make one's taijiquan a functional art and vastly superior art ;D
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:06 pm

I have always stated that if one learns taijiquan how it is presently taught, then the addition of 1-3 yeras of shuaijiao practice/conditioning can make one's taijiquan a functional art and vastly superior art


I'd say that it might make them better martial artists, but I don't think that it makes the art better. Studying boxing doesn't make wrestling better. Anyway, there's going to be debates about whether X style has techniques that Y style don't have. Meh. Everybody wants to say his art is complete. But, even if throws are added, you'd have to add ground work to make it more superior, no?

In the popular imagination, adding techniques from other martial arts makes "tcc" better. Fair enough, adding FMA or silat will improve your martial ability. In fact, there are loads of martial techniques that could be incorporated or added. However, when it matters, I don't think a person cares what he calls what he does. Absorb what is useful.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:34 pm

It's the principle that I'm interested in. You force your opponent to shift weight from one leg to another. You then take advantage while he has 100% weight on one leg. By using this principle, you may be able to create your own favor combo.

Here is another example.

I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Bao on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:53 pm

johnwang wrote:It's the principle that I'm interested in. You force your opponent to shift weight from one leg to another. You then take advantage while he has 100% weight on one leg. By using this principle, you may be able to create your own favor combo.

Here is another example.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAq5H3A_QRc&feature=youtu.be[/ube]


Beautiful. But what do when he gets up and attack again? Another throw and then one again? Here is the difference between combat and sports.
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:27 pm

Bao wrote:Beautiful. But what do when he gets up and attack again? Another throw and then one again? Here is the difference between combat and sports.

If you can get hold of one of your opponent's legs, not only you can drop your knee into his groin, you can also twist his leg and apply knee bar on him.



Last edited by johnwang on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: Make your push into a throw

Postby Bao on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:38 pm

I am all to lazy for groundfighting. I'll just stick to my striking game then. ;)
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