the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

marvin8 wrote:Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy,"

johnwang wrote:

marvin8 wrote:Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy,"

Besides push and pull, there is also twist. I will say the usage are:

1. Pull 50%,
2. Push 30%,
3. Twist 20%.

In wrestling, pulling is used much more often then pushing.

All the

- face to face throws use push or twist.
- back to face throws use pull.

wiesiek wrote:..."I was thinking more of pushing or pulling, then borrow opponent's reaction force to finish (action/reaction)..."
so,
this is push +,
and basically
we are speakin` about the same thing.

marvin8 wrote:

wiesiek wrote:demoing endless pushes is pointless on the forum,
it my present understanding is . . .

I love it!
we are diggin` in the deepest roots of the Chinese philosophy....

let`s agree, that push is like foreplay ,
important and basic,
BUT
it is only prelude in most of the real cases,
so
over-focusing here,- deadly mistake.

Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy," as mentioned in the article. Is it your opinion that yin/yang (push/pull), JW, and GM Chang are "over-focusing here,- deadly mistake?"

Steve James wrote:Well, just for fun, let's say I wanted to throw someone over my shoulder. I'd have to be in front and at least have control of one of his arms. I'd imagine that, in this position, I could push "up" on one of his shoulders while simultaneously pulling "down" on the arm that I controlled. This would be using the "yin yang" principle, no? (Note that I'm not talking about how I got to that position).

marvin8 wrote:Excerpt from "The History And Origins Of Modern Chinese Shuai Chiao Kung Fu," https://www.lvshaolin.com/shuai_chiao/:

Las Vegas Shaolin wrote:Throwing techniques taught at the Las Vegas Kung Fu martial art school, use the principles of Yin and Yang, These principles rely on the natural, physical laws of balance.

These kung fu martial art techniques uproots and throws the opponent very quickly. Yin and Yang is the concept of opposite force acting in coordination with each other in order to form a balance In Shuai Chiao Chinese wrestling the opponent's own body position is used against him. Fast moving foot work and leg sweeps are combined with techniques that control the opponent's upper body. This creates a push / pull action that resembles the yin and yang symbol. For example, one might push on the opponents shoulder while sweeping his legs backward so that the upper body would go in one direction while the lower body would go in the opposite direction thus off balancing the opponent and taking him to the ground. These kung fu martial art techniques uproots and throws the opponent very quickly. The emphasis of these kung fu techniques are on absorbing and blending with an opponents own force or momentum and using this force to slam them to the ground. The ground or the earth will literally be a weapon that you can take with you wherever you go and is always available.

DR. YANG, JWING-MING wrote:The first application covered is Grasp the Sparrow's Tail during which Dr. Yang Jwing Ming shows how to use the hands, arms and legs to effect the opponent's root. Dr. Yang Jwing Ming shows how to use the left hand to push aside the right arm of the opponent, allowing Dr. Yang's right hand and arm to attack the upper body and head of his opponent.

An interesting variation of this technique is demonstrated by Bruce Lee in the movie "Enter the Dragon". During his fight with O'Hara, the henchman of the main bad guy, Bruce Lee faces off with O'Hara in the Crossed Pushing Hands starting position, with their right arms touching at the wrist. Bruce Lee then uses the beginning of the technique as shown in Grasp the Sparrow's Tail where he brings his left hand up to push/pull the right arm of O'Hara out of the way so he can strike the right temple of O'Hara with the top of his right wrist. The movie has to be watched frame by frame at this point to realize what Bruce is doing due to his amazing speed, but once viewed it is basically the same beginning as the technique taught on this tape. Bruce chooses to strike to the head instead of continuing on with a wrestling throw, but the moves leading to the strike and/or throw are the same. Remember, Bruce Lee learned Taijiquan from his father around the same time as he began learning Wing Chun from Yip Man.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrWXpmHruxQ

Steve James wrote:I didn't mention any technique. But no matter.

johnwang wrote:

Steve James wrote:I didn't mention any technique. But no matter.

A hip throw is to

- push with hip and
- pull with arm.

Steve James wrote:

johnwang wrote:

Steve James wrote:I didn't mention any technique. But no matter.

A hip throw is to

- push with hip and
- pull with arm.

That was my point. There's a shuaijiao logo with a guy doing a throw inside a taichitu. Isn't there?

I misread your post, earlier. Are you speaking of a shoulder throw?

Steve James wrote:

I misread your post, earlier. Are you speaking of a shoulder throw?

That would be one obvious example, but I was just pointing out the push/pull principle. The seoinage is a specific technique. John might argue that tcc generally doesn't have that specific technique. There's no reason it couldn't be; the only question is the specific way to include it.

Anyway, I think I mentioned earlier to John that a throw contains a push up. I think combining a push up with a pull down results in a throw. Otoh, it works if reversed, and a pull up is combined with a push down. That's one way I think of as the principle of using yin and yang.