the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Not such an easy thing when you have a ball in one hand and anything up to 4 people might be tackling you from any direction from your shoulders down to your ankles

When you just push without using any leg skill, it will look like this.

some work done by teacher david chin... a demo
stealing step, creating space, throwing using long power



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQ_wdL4QB0

marvin8 wrote:

wiesiek wrote:..."I was thinking more of pushing or pulling, then borrow opponent's reaction force to finish (action/reaction)..."
so,
this is push +,
and basically
we are speakin` about the same thing.

It would be easier to understand you if you simply answer the question.

marvin8 wrote:

wiesiek wrote:demoing endless pushes is pointless on the forum,
it my present understanding is . . .

I love it!
we are diggin` in the deepest roots of the Chinese philosophy....

let`s agree, that push is like foreplay ,
important and basic,
BUT
it is only prelude in most of the real cases,
so
over-focusing here,- deadly mistake.

Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy," as mentioned in the article. Is it your opinion that yin/yang (push/pull), JW, and GM Chang are "over-focusing here,- deadly mistake?"

ok,
if you like dig and split a hear, :

demoing endless pushes is pointless on the forum,

90% PH demos are all about:
absorbing the push, and ...>push back,
nothing wrong with using it as the training tool,
but
we are here all kindergartens graduates, I suppose
so,
forgive me,
continuously posting it, doesn`t bring noting interesting.

let`s agree, that push is like foreplay ,

strange, that you need an explanation here, :
anyway, it is easy -
a/ you push - no reaction , you adding the leg and finish the throw
b/ you push - reaction > you go follow , adding the pull/twist and finish the throw

over-focusing here,- deadly mistake.[/quote]
Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy," as mentioned in the article. Is it your opinion that yin/yang (push/pull), JW, and GM Chang are "over-focusing here,- deadly mistake?"[/quote][/quote]


starting point was just the "push", then, do I need more typing?
just in the case, if you`re not fully satisfied :
yin need yang
action-reaction
no action - no reaction
so,
you have to start something, then you
PUSH,
again, we are speakin` about begging point, and keepin` the discussion in the begging point is ... well, pointless


For successfully executed throw you need fulfill all the principles,
YES or NO ?





NO
if somebody is nice, and will help you on one or more points...
/look on my post with seoinage ,shoulder throw w/o the hands /

wiesiek wrote:

wiesiek wrote:

marvin8 wrote:..."I was thinking more of pushing or pulling, then borrow opponent's reaction force to finish (action/reaction)..."

so,
this is push +,
and basically
we are speakin` about the same thing.

marvin8 wrote:??? It would be easier to understand you if you simply answer the question.

demoing endless pushes is pointless on the forum,
it my present understanding is . . .

I love it!
we are diggin` in the deepest roots of the Chinese philosophy....

let`s agree, that push is like foreplay ,
important and basic,
BUT
it is only prelude in most of the real cases,
so
over-focusing here,- deadly mistake.

marvin8 wrote:Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy," as mentioned in the article. Is it your opinion that yin/yang (push/pull), JW, and GM Chang are "over-focusing here,- deadly mistake?"

ok,
if you like dig and split a hear, :

demoing endless pushes is pointless on the forum,

90% PH demos are all about:
absorbing the push, and ...>push back,
nothing wrong with using it as the training tool,
but
we are here all kindergartens graduates, I suppose
so,
forgive me,
continuously posting it, doesn`t bring noting interesting.

let`s agree, that push is like foreplay ,

Not "pointless." As you said, push away in training and demos is for the pushee's safety.

Not only "foreplay." There is more than one type (direction) of push. Push down (an) can be a finish move and used in sport (e.g., rugby images), real fight or demo. At 1:16, 1:24, 1:36, 1:35, 1:52, 1:59, 2:23, 2:43, and 3:13, demo of push down (an):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSGIvy6pwc

wiesiek wrote:strange, that you need an explanation here, :
anyway, it is easy -
a/ you push - no reaction , you adding the leg and finish the throw
b/ you push - reaction > you go follow , adding the pull/twist and finish the throw

over-focusing here,- deadly mistake.

I don't. Both JW and grandmasater Chang used "push." Plus, you use "push" in your examples. So, it is neither "over-focusing here" nor a "deadly mistake."

wiesiek wrote:

marvin8 wrote:Push/pull is like yin/yang in "Chinese philosophy," as mentioned in the article. Is it your opinion that yin/yang (push/pull), JW, and GM Chang are "over-focusing here,- deadly mistake?"

starting point was just the "push", then, do I need more typing?
just in the case, if you`re not fully satisfied :
yin need yang
action-reaction
no action - no reaction
so,
you have to start something, then you
PUSH,
again, we are speakin` about begging point, and keepin` the discussion in the begging point is ... well, pointless

That is what has been posted (e.g., judo, rugby images). So again, it is neither "over-focusing here" nor a "deadly mistake."

wiesiek wrote:For successfully executed throw you need fulfill all the principles,
YES or NO ?




NO
if somebody is nice, and will help you on one or more points...
/look on my post with seoinage ,shoulder throw w/o the hands /

No. But, as JW said:

johnwang wrote:That rugby clip remind me some Aikido clips, there are too much force that you can borrow from your opponent. In reality, your opponent won't let you to borrow his force that easy.

In sport they won't but in real life there is always a point where they try to take your head off

yup,
I gave example from real life , directly my personal experience,
no quote this time.

one more word about" pointless pushing " ,
when pushing demo makin` sense?
when:
receiving and changing into finishing move ,
others? :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ps
I do not dig to much into theoretically dividing the push /down, up, side , little beat up and slightly right....etc./
different things like to happen during the laundry.

I posted this some time back. I think it is interesting again in light of the present discussion. Sometimes the feet are in it, sometimes not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_luDzL03vw