Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Ron Panunto on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:17 am

It just struck me that another practice meshes nicely with the microcosmic orbit, and that is twining. You can twine the limbs one way on the inhale, and then let them unwind on the exhale.
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby voidisyinyang on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:35 pm

Hi Trick.
Honestly I don't know what to believe when it comes to all this stuff that Voidisyinyang is talking about.
"Everyone" and I mean "Everyone" gets Zero Credit from me and then we work from there. So as you can see, I don't believe anything that people say just because they said so.
Sounds like pure delusion. Who knows?[/quote]

Zero-point quantum biology energy lecture - Professor Jack Tuszynski - he gets into memory storage -
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:53 am

voidisyinyang wrote:Hi Trick.
Honestly I don't know what to believe when it comes to all this stuff that Voidisyinyang is talking about.
"Everyone" and I mean "Everyone" gets Zero Credit from me and then we work from there. So as you can see, I don't believe anything that people say just because they said so.
Sounds like pure delusion. Who knows?


Zero-point quantum biology energy lecture - Professor Jack Tuszynski - he gets into memory storage - [/quote]
Is Professor numb nuts an immortal too? I rest my case.
willie

 

Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Franklin on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:51 am

reading through some of the replies...

my opinion is a lot of people seem to be confusing physical manipulation of the structure
which is good for developing power (in a useful martial sense)
for the MCO...

also -- everyone seems to think the MCO is the mantak chia sit and imagine pressure
and imagine the flow.. until you feel it....

I did learn this way as well
but i never really practiced it..
it seemed like it was too easy to imagine results -- and trick yourself into thinking that something was happening

I also learned to just sit and focus on the breath and lower dan tien
until you fall into a sort of emptiness- no thoughts, no breathing, etc..
and from this emptiness- the real energy will arise
and that this is the real MCO
(when it starts to happen spontaneously...)

I focused on this way ..

I recommend that people interested in the MCO
read the book that I recommended at the start of the thread...

the body goes through physical changes as the energy start to flow and open up the channels

the book i recommended is the best written work that I have see so far (and I have read a lot)
that accurately describes -- what I experienced
and I wish I would have had it as a reference when I was going through those changes...
(looking back and reading that book -- helped me to get a clearer picture of what had happened)


--------------------------

I have seen a lot of people practice the imagination way of the MCO
and not achieve anything
-- of course they can talk for hours about what they have achieved...
they sort of get stuck in the imagination part of it...


I think the imagination and Yi part of energy training
starts to come into play once the orbits are already opened by emptiness
then after they are opened--
then you can use imagination/Yi to direct and move stuff....


and I think some people make the training way too complicated..
taosim / energy training is simple
its patterned after nature...

you can not direct it...
it is a natural process that unfolds by itself

and sitting in emptiness is what allows that to happen..
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 am

Franklin wrote:reading through some of the replies...

my opinion is a lot of people seem to be confusing physical manipulation of the structure
which is good for developing power (in a useful martial sense)
for the MCO...

I also learned to just sit and focus on the breath and lower dan tien
until you fall into a sort of emptiness- no thoughts, no breathing, etc..
and from this emptiness- the real energy will arise
and that this is the real MCO
(when it starts to happen spontaneously...)


I recommend that people interested in the MCO
read the book that I recommended at the start of the thread...

the body goes through physical changes as the energy start to flow and open up the channels

the book i recommended is the best written work that I have see so far (and I have read a lot)
that accurately describes -- what I experienced
and I wish I would have had it as a reference when I was going through those changes...
(looking back and reading that book -- helped me to get a clearer picture of what had happened)


--------------------------

I have seen a lot of people practice the imagination way of the MCO
and not achieve anything
-- of course they can talk for hours about what they have achieved...
they sort of get stuck in the imagination part of it...


I think the imagination and Yi part of energy training
starts to come into play once the orbits are already opened by emptiness
then after they are opened--
then you can use imagination/Yi to direct and move stuff....


and I think some people make the training way too complicated..
taosim / energy training is simple
its patterned after nature...

you can not direct it...
it is a natural process that unfolds by itself

and sitting in emptiness is what allows that to happen..


Hi Franklin
I feel that the term emptiness is over used and over rated, everyone needs to breath, But you are correct. M.C.O. is usually a still meditation.
It is just getting in tune with whats going on inside in body.
Although, I feel that the forms will bring someone to the same place.

Thanks
willie

 

Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Franklin on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:44 am

willie wrote:
Hi Franklin
I feel that the term emptiness is over used and over rated, everyone needs to breath, But you are correct. M.C.O. is usually a still meditation.
It is just getting in tune with whats going on inside in body.
Although, I feel that the forms will bring someone to the same place.

Thanks



its not just getting in tune with your body
in a sort of mindfulness way in which many people talk about that sort of thing..

and yes -- the training is easier to get to while seated
but you can do it through movement
or by standing still...

and its not a dead emptiness that you seek..

most system start with a way to focus the mind
be it feeling the breath, counting the breath, visualizing something (simple or complex like the tibetan stuff)
but this is just a tool to quiet the mind...
once the mind is quiet, then you can fall deeper and deeper into this
until it becomes a sort of emptiness...
(this is where you stop becoming aware of the breathing, sounds, external things-- but the inside is also empty..)

from this emptiness -- the real energy arises...
and it starts to clear out the channels..
which can take different lengths of time depending on how many blockages and old diseases there are...
this is where some type of moving practice would have been helpful to prepare the body...
otherwise it can be painful...

anyways.. the body goes through different levels of changes... as this is happening
the physical and energy body is in a sense transformed...

these first stages are laid out fairly well in the book I recommended...

in my experience- you need to go through these changes for the orbits to be open...

then after that -- practice becomes less physical in nature..
and deals more with the mind and consciousness...

taoism seems to have laid out the physical changes fairly well
and then the stages past that seem to be more thoroughly laid out in buddhist texts..


movement type practice can bring this sort of cultivation about
but it seems to be harder for people to get it..
a lot of people can not even get past the basic alignment stages in taiji practice
let alone relax and use the power from the ground...

I think something simpler is better for the energy stuff...
TaiChi ruler is really good..
but you need to find someone to show the full system...
just the beginning stages can be 2-3 or more hours of practice a day..
and the full system goes into martial application of the movements and energy...



good luck in your training...
Franklin
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby voidisyinyang on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:18 am

Franklin wrote:
willie wrote:
Hi Franklin
I feel that the term emptiness is over used and over rated, everyone needs to breath, But you are correct. M.C.O. is usually a still meditation.
It is just getting in tune with whats going on inside in body.
Although, I feel that the forms will bring someone to the same place.

Thanks



its not just getting in tune with your body
in a sort of mindfulness way in which many people talk about that sort of thing..

and yes -- the training is easier to get to while seated
but you can do it through movement
or by standing still...

and its not a dead emptiness that you seek..

most system start with a way to focus the mind
be it feeling the breath, counting the breath, visualizing something (simple or complex like the tibetan stuff)
but this is just a tool to quiet the mind...
once the mind is quiet, then you can fall deeper and deeper into this
until it becomes a sort of emptiness...
(this is where you stop becoming aware of the breathing, sounds, external things-- but the inside is also empty..)

from this emptiness -- the real energy arises...
and it starts to clear out the channels..
which can take different lengths of time depending on how many blockages and old diseases there are...
this is where some type of moving practice would have been helpful to prepare the body...
otherwise it can be painful...

anyways.. the body goes through different levels of changes... as this is happening
the physical and energy body is in a sense transformed...

these first stages are laid out fairly well in the book I recommended...

in my experience- you need to go through these changes for the orbits to be open...

then after that -- practice becomes less physical in nature..
and deals more with the mind and consciousness...

taoism seems to have laid out the physical changes fairly well
and then the stages past that seem to be more thoroughly laid out in buddhist texts..


movement type practice can bring this sort of cultivation about
but it seems to be harder for people to get it..
a lot of people can not even get past the basic alignment stages in taiji practice
let alone relax and use the power from the ground...

I think something simpler is better for the energy stuff...
TaiChi ruler is really good..
but you need to find someone to show the full system...
just the beginning stages can be 2-3 or more hours of practice a day..
and the full system goes into martial application of the movements and energy...



good luck in your training...
Franklin


Franklin did you train from Master Nan, Huai-jin directly?

Bill Bodri's book "Measuring Meditation" with Master Nan is also excellent.

Master Nan's books are out of print but online free -

Working Toward Enlightenment
Realizing Enlightenment
Tao and Longevity

I spent a few years studying his work.

As Bodri and Nan teach - the standing active Tai Chi exercise is necessary at night to maintain celibacy.

The sympathetic nervous system has to be pushed to the extreme to cause a parasympathetic rebound.

Emptiness is an actual spacetime vortex - only after the yin qi is filled up into the Ocean of Yin Qi below the navel - so that the legs channels have to be opened up first.

I use my qi to heal others - so I don't build up my qi. I overused my qi. haha.

As Chunyi Lin says - if you sit in full lotus meditation and focus your mind on the lower tan t'ien then the small universe or MCO will circulate on its own.

Master Nan, Huai-chin says even monks these days can not sit in full lotus nonstop for a week - so how can their energy channels be open? haha.

So the body energy does up in frequency - the energy is macroquantum based on frequency. We perceive things based on light. So when light is turned back around then it has relativistic mass.

This is the hidden momentum of light that is superluminal - Nobel physicist Gerard 't Hooft discusses this in his article, "Light is Heavy." Only the most advanced science corroborates the spiritual claims of Master Nan, Huai-chin.

So in fact all matter is transformed from energy that is superluminal - called "virtual photons." For example charge of the Volt is from the virtual photon magnetic field - or "magnetic anomaly" from the future. Science can now "capture" virtual photons from the future - Per Desling has demonstrated this in the lab. It requires phase coherence using the Josephson Junction as superconducting phase energy.

Biophotons are laser light and so have super-radiance - as a coherent phase resonance from the future with the virtual photons. We can capture virtual photon energy to transform relativistic mass as superluminal momentum - by internal listening. Listening as acoustic oscillation phonon has a "subwavelength" to light - but since it is "quasi-matter" - it is reverse time energy - that is superluminal momentum. Instead of wavelength it is just pure reverse time as consciousness or formless awareness as the Emptiness. This energy is then stored up on the lower tan t'ien - as "negentropy." Schroedinger coined the term "negentropy" in his 1930s classic book, "What is Life?" - the quantum degeneracy pressure is what creates stars as fusion. It is sonofusion - as an acoustic cavitation - so that the surface momentum is faster than the 3D momentum. So you get a 4th dimension of space or a 5th dimension of spacetime.

At each zero point in space there is still frequency-energy, as Alain Connes explains with music theory! haha. So when in Daoism it is taught, every is from yin and yang - this is from music theory actually. In Buddhism it is called mutual interdependence.

With our eyes open - then two-thirds of our brain energy is used for vision. This is the liver qi. With the eyes closed the spirit light is laser energy that is resonated by internal listening that guides the spirit light - from the future. We reverse our external light time perception.

So when these qigong masters do cave meditation - their body does not move but actually their spirit is traveling in "heaven" that is superluminal - it is called the Golden Key by Zhang Hongbao, one of the most popular qigong masters in China - but he died mysteriously in US, probably due to politics. Anyway so they do the 49 day cave meditation at Mt. Qingcheng - and the cave fills with light.

Master Zhang, Yuanming describes this cave meditation training.

Feng Shui Qigong
This method helps improve qi in the inner landscape of the body. The ocean-wave-like mantra and image of wind and water enable you to open the Ren (front) and Du (back) channels and help Qi to circulate along the microcosmic orbit. Benefits include:
• Reduces stress
• Improves the function of the internal organs
• Cleanses and balances the body


Qigong and Xingyi Workshops Taught by Grandmaster Yuanming Zhang
https://www.meetup.com/Greater-Boston-Q ... XPjuWWVsWS

So Chunyi Lin went to visit Master Zhang, Yuanming - but he was sitting motionless in cave meditation. In fact he was resonating with the "golden key" as superluminal "yin matter" of the yuan jing yang shen energy.

http://qigongmaster.com
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Franklin on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:57 am

voidisyinyang wrote:
Franklin did you train from Master Nan, Huai-jin directly?

Bill Bodri's book "Measuring Meditation" with Master Nan is also excellent.

Master Nan's books are out of print but online free -

Working Toward Enlightenment
Realizing Enlightenment
Tao and Longevity




I did not train under Nan or anyone who studied with him...

over the years I have studied a lot of things though
the bulk of it coming from the taoist tradition
but lots of other things as well


I learned and have found that it is effective to filter what other people write through your own experience
and see if it matches

if it matches what you have personally experienced-
then it can help you deepen your understanding
or give you a deeper perspective...


for things like energy training
you can only know where you are at and what it took to get to that level
anything higher then your personal experience is just speculation...




his student Bodri's book - the Hercules one
basically outlined the physical stuff that I had experienced myself..
so I recommend it to people
because when I was going through it-- this book with explanations of what is happening could have really helped me...

I have also read Nan and Bodri's Measuring Meditation--
i thought it was very good
at least for building a framework of understanding the bigger picture...
and how different traditions are talking about the same thing in different ways...

Nan's Tao and Longevity book -
I did like it
but I felt it was lacking some details
but as a quick overview of the process it was really good

Nan's other books - to realize and working twards enlightenment
I did try to read them some years ago
but in the first couple chapters there were some things that conflicted with my personal experience..
maybe I will try to read them again and see if they speak differently to me now...




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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:50 am

[quote="Franklin"][quote="voidisyinyang"]

What is enlightenment? You can do the form laojia and end up becoming very giggly and bursting with happiness. This has happened to me and my sifu. for the people who don't know what Laojia is "it's the first and original taichi form that all other taichi styles were built from" So is that happiness enlightenment?

According to my first Yang style teacher, Enlightenment was much simpler than what anybody would imagine. It was simply putting down your burdens and walking away without them.


In my experience mostly everyone is operating in speculation. I don't trust no one. If some of you have noticed, most of these Masters who are teaching others in internal Arts are getting beat up by people with very little skill. That should raise a big red flag because, These are the same people writing books and teaching meditation...
So rather then just getting beat up, now they sell insanity as well, LOL!

Honestly, in my opinion I would not recommend for anyone to mess around with all that stuff. Just stay simple and live a happy life...
Last edited by willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby GrahamB on Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:48 pm

I think we just hit peak Joe Rogan experience.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:29 pm

I'm not really into the bashing to much, but watch the last one in this video, it's too funny!
That dude still thinks everything is just dandy, LOL!


He got the capital M.C.O. in the bag...
Last edited by willie on Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Appledog on Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:41 pm

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.
Last edited by Appledog on Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby Trick on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:55 pm

willie wrote:If some of you have noticed, most of these Masters who are teaching others in internal Arts are getting beat up by people with very little skill. That should raise a big red flag because, These are the same people writing books and teaching meditation...
So rather then just getting beat up, now they sell insanity as well, LOL!

Honestly, in my opinion I would not recommend for anyone to mess around with all that stuff. Just stay simple and live a happy life...

Even if they getting beat up they are immortals and not really get hurt
Trick

 

Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:09 am

Trick wrote:
willie wrote:If some of you have noticed, most of these Masters who are teaching others in internal Arts are getting beat up by people with very little skill. That should raise a big red flag because, These are the same people writing books and teaching meditation...
So rather then just getting beat up, now they sell insanity as well, LOL!

Honestly, in my opinion I would not recommend for anyone to mess around with all that stuff. Just stay simple and live a happy life...

Even if they getting beat up they are immortals and not really get hurt

Are you serious? Those guys are no more Immortals than Daffy Duck
willie

 

Re: Microcosmis Orbit Training as Part of Taijiquan

Postby willie on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:16 am

Appledog wrote:everything voidisyinyang said is correct

Correct is a very big word. Are you sure that's the word that you should be using?
How do you know that he is correct?
willie

 

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