Taiji knee?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Taiji knee?

Postby taiwandeutscher on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:53 am

A friend of mine, an orthopedic physician, tells me, that the knee as a hinge joint doesn't need any restrictions in bending as long as twisting is avoided.
More important might be the kua, the spine positioning
I train more than 30 yrs, with my knees often extending beyond the the famous rule, never any problems.
Quite contrary, my bad skiing knee was healed within 5 yrs. of practice.
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:54 am

The knee bend rule is not to protect the knee but for combat stability
Right and left and sticking to the hinge is more important
Feet follow the square hands follow the circle
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby Giles on Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:37 am

There are no absolute rules here, indeed. The “knee not beyond the toes in front stance” principle is a rule of thumb (rule of toe…?) that is usually useful, especially for beginners, but not an absolute necessity. Doing a grand plié can be fine for the knees (and great for the leg muscles) if you do it right. I can refer to my own 8 years of ballet training for that. (No, that's not me in the photo. Neither of them). ;D

Image

What’s more problematic is when the vertical line down from the hip joint (which also marks the greater part of the load created by total body weight) no longer ‘falls’ in the heel or the centre of the foot (up to and including the yong chun point/Kidney 1). The knee itself can be fine beyond the knee in vertical terms as long as the inguinal crease goes deeper with the stance, no problem. But if this vertical line goes further forwards, beyond the toes, with the hip itself pushing forwards instead of sinking down, then the knee joint is subject to stresses that otherwise would not occur. Try it, you can feel it ;). As said, that may be fine for some people but for others this is where the knee problems start or get worse if this is done habitually.
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby Giles on Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:39 am

wayne hansen wrote:The knee bend rule is not to protect the knee but for combat stability

For sure, and if the knee is too far forward it dramatically decreases speed and smoothness of stepping, in every direction.

Right and left and sticking to the hinge is more important
Feet follow the square hands follow the circle


Not sure what you mean there, Wayne. Maybe I'm on the same page, but unfamiliar with this terminology. Like to elaborate?
Last edited by Giles on Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby Yeung on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:22 pm

wayne hansen wrote:So if you do tai chi incorrectly you will get bad results

In this case it is the question of using brute force against the weight of the body that is all or simply an example of double weighted. Stiffen up the ankle and hip joints, and the force sort of push the knee outward. Most athletes should have enough muscles in getting up from an one legged squat but not when it is done slowly as in competitive Taijiquan.
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby Yeung on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:46 pm

Passive Range of Motion (Knee Joint)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeF3Hmw7k3U
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:09 am

TTT
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:57 am

I
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Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Taiji knee?

Postby Yeung on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:11 pm

Knee Rotation in Classical Dancers during the Grand Plié

Margaret A. Barnes, M.A., T.Dip. (RAD), Donna Krasnow, M.S., Susan J. Tupling, Ph.D., and Martin Thomas, Ph.D.

Medical Problems of Performing Artists, December 2000.

http://www.citraining.com/Knee-Rotation.html
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