zhan zhuang to help with directional change

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zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:24 pm

and twisting movements. any change you would make for emphasizing directional changes and one-armed grappling on the run? or just do the same thing. or just swing kbs and hammers and etc.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby yeniseri on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Not sure of what you speak but the yangsheng element of zhanzhaung/taijizhuang is part of the life enhancing variable of static posture maintenance.
Hopefully, things like physical activity with silk reeling qualities can assist with furthering the movement of the musculature.

Direction change definition is in order to get a better understand of what you are referencing
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:31 am

basically I play too much indoor soccer. The ball doesn't really go out of bounds. The game requires constant agility moves and change of direction moves. There is incidental one-armed (and sometimes two-armed) light grappling. You can think of it as needing omnidirectional force and bagua type footwork (but more difficult) while running around. I don't want to do any more exercise that heavily involves my calves or legs. A little kb work that's more upper body and core focused is fine. It seems like zhan zhuang and baguazhang should be pretty ideal auxiliary training, maybe adapt it a little.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby .Q. on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:17 pm

I would imagine doing footwork drills and playing with momentum is more useful than doing ZZ for training directional change? Even though you can train direction changes in ZZ the lack of momentum is going to make it less efficient. Soccer must already have plenty of drills for this. If you don't want to do more heavy exercise with your legs you can modify the drills so they better suit your needs. If you already do Bagua you probably already know what modifications to make. If you're dead set on ZZ then maybe moving ZZ like circle walking while holding the 8 mother palms?
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:39 pm

yes the sport-specific drills are obviously the best, but my legs can only take so much of it. I can do some kb work that doesn't stress them this way next. For example a simple twist so the upper body can handle quick changes (that maybe have a lean or twist first).

I don't really do bagua. I can fake it, though. I'm not dead set on ZZ, but this is a good excuse to do something "IMA" related that supports my main movement interest without overtraining. I think of ZZ and the yiquan "almost movement" as "sub-threshold excitation" - so you are training your nervous system reaction time but in a relaxed way so you change quickly --- this is "internal" work without doing all the leg stress. I suppose I can just adapt bagua type circle walking with a ball and combine it with shi li, to answer my own question.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby windwalker on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:11 pm

everything wrote:and twisting movements. any change you would make for emphasizing directional changes and one-armed grappling on the run? or just do the same thing. or just swing kbs and hammers and etc.


We used to practice this on cement post...a little lower to the floor and more accessible as one can
make their own. It helps to learn, train single axis movement and stepping coordinated with directional changes
and body movement.



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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:44 pm

cool thanks. always wanted to try something like that! definitely looks like something I could do that would be beneficial, fun, and wouldn't cause any overuse issue.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby windwalker on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:51 pm

everything wrote:cool thanks. always wanted to try something like that! definitely looks like something I could do that would be beneficial, fun, and wouldn't cause any overuse issue.


we made our post from coffee cans filled with cement,,,brick might work but not so stable.

You mentioned kettle balls, we used what are called wood locks,,,you might be able to combine the things
you have and use into your own drill...
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby Trick on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:00 am

everything wrote:yes the sport-specific drills are obviously the best, but my legs can only take so much of it. I can do some kb work that doesn't stress them this way next. For example a simple twist so the upper body can handle quick changes (that maybe have a lean or twist first).

I don't really do bagua. I can fake it, though. I'm not dead set on ZZ, but this is a good excuse to do something "IMA" related that supports my main movement interest without overtraining. I think of ZZ and the yiquan "almost movement" as "sub-threshold excitation" - so you are training your nervous system reaction time but in a relaxed way so you change quickly --- this is "internal" work without doing all the leg stress. I suppose I can just adapt bagua type circle walking with a ball and combine it with shi li, to answer my own question.

If you practice Yiquan you would know Mocabu?
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:17 pm

ZZ is an exercise that helps discover the center, movement is totally focused on the ability to control the center and for the center to guide the movement. I would suggest one spend time recognizing that aspect of motion, and learning to allow the reflex become one with the movement.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Trick wrote:
everything wrote:yes the sport-specific drills are obviously the best, but my legs can only take so much of it. I can do some kb work that doesn't stress them this way next. For example a simple twist so the upper body can handle quick changes (that maybe have a lean or twist first).

I don't really do bagua. I can fake it, though. I'm not dead set on ZZ, but this is a good excuse to do something "IMA" related that supports my main movement interest without overtraining. I think of ZZ and the yiquan "almost movement" as "sub-threshold excitation" - so you are training your nervous system reaction time but in a relaxed way so you change quickly --- this is "internal" work without doing all the leg stress. I suppose I can just adapt bagua type circle walking with a ball and combine it with shi li, to answer my own question.

If you practice Yiquan you would know Mocabu?


I don't, but it doesn't seem as helpful as bagua footwork for this particular purpose.

Wanderingdragon wrote:ZZ is an exercise that helps discover the center, movement is totally focused on the ability to control the center and for the center to guide the movement. I would suggest one spend time recognizing that aspect of motion, and learning to allow the reflex become one with the movement.


Usually I need to appear as if my body or foot is going one way, so I can go the other way. That may be a shoulder drop, or a slight move of the foot (not really connected to center). Or a move of the ball. ... but some "internal power" may be needed at times.
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/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby Trick on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:33 pm

everything wrote:
Trick wrote:
everything wrote:yes the sport-specific drills are obviously the best, but my legs can only take so much of it. I can do some kb work that doesn't stress them this way next. For example a simple twist so the upper body can handle quick changes (that maybe have a lean or twist first).

I don't really do bagua. I can fake it, though. I'm not dead set on ZZ, but this is a good excuse to do something "IMA" related that supports my main movement interest without overtraining. I think of ZZ and the yiquan "almost movement" as "sub-threshold excitation" - so you are training your nervous system reaction time but in a relaxed way so you change quickly --- this is "internal" work without doing all the leg stress. I suppose I can just adapt bagua type circle walking with a ball and combine it with shi li, to answer my own question.

If you practice Yiquan you would know Mocabu?


I don't, but it doesn't seem as helpful as bagua footwork for this particular purpose.

I guess you don’t practice Yiquan then
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:11 am

All movement / speed of movement, whether to feign or to go, is connected and directed by center.
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby everything on Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:40 pm

Wanderingdragon wrote:All movement / speed of movement, whether to feign or to go, is connected and directed by center.


sometimes you just move your foot. whether that's from center or not, not sure.

yiquan


I don't really practice any IMA, but you could say I want to use some IMA movement and "power" in some other "application" area, just not really a fighting area. at this level it's all the same to me. some of it should be helpful imo. I've commented a lot already on how ZZ is very useful for me at (fake) goalie. Mostly what you end up doing is "standing" being ready but relaxed, with some sudden movement, and even when you do that movement to do some kind of block, you move into a different "posture". It's an interesting experience. The core movements for everyone else is about changes of direction, in a "v", side to side, or turning, with occasional one-armed push hands or grappling, and some shoulder bumping. Of course you need to be good at falling, breakfalling, and then theatrically rolling around many more times than needed (and you think the taichi hop is bad, hahaha).
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Re: zhan zhuang to help with directional change

Postby Trick on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 am

Back in Sweden with one GongFu club I was associated with we use to play indoor football(soccer) as warm up and “warm down” before and after GongFu class. We practiced in a very small primary school gymnasium, we divided us up in three man teams and used smaller size floorball goals the games where quick first to three goals king of the hill kind...But of course the GongFu practice was our man goal but the football game except serving as a warm up it also worked as stamina/endurance and also footwork and stability and evasiveness practice....sometimes we played floorball instead....it was very fun so a complete training session could be 4-5 hours....What I want to say is that our indoor football was a complementary to our GongFu practice
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