Mandarin translation help

[xuesheng]

Can anyone help me with the translation of this line?
慾情故縱
Yù qíng gù zòng
It is a movement in a broadsword form in which you are holding the sword tip pointing forward, edge up, and you take four rapid steps backward....
I can't make much sense out of it but I think it has to do with having one intention but doing something unexpected.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve

[kenneth fish]

Hmmm - it reads to me "to be lead astray by passions" or "to abandon oneself to ones desires". It probably means to move freely, as if without restrictions

[xuesheng]

Thanks very much for your help, Kenneth. I see how you come up with that but can't quite figure out how it relates to the technique or how to make it sound right in the translation I'm preparing...
Best,
Steve

[josh]

I think it's supposed to be 欲擒故縱 (yu qin gu zong), which means that you intentionally let someone go when you want to capture them.

[Robert Young]

I believe the phrase 慾情故縱 should be 欲擒故縱.

"欲擒" means wanting to catch or grab.

"故縱" means letting the object to fled.

The whole phrase means that even you want to catch an object, you actually let it fled first. And, somehow you already has set up a trap somewhere to catch it later.

Hope this help.

[Wuyizidi]

It probably should be 欲擒故縱:
欲 (yù): desiring, wanting to (verb). The word you used 慾, is a noun. It also means desire, usually carnal desire.
擒 (qín): capture. The word you used is 情 (qíng), meaning passion, emotion.
故 (gù): deliberately
縱 (zòng): set free

This phrase originated from 需 (xu1) 卦 (gua) in Yi Jing:

逼则反兵；走则减势。紧追勿迫，累其气力，消其斗志，散而后擒，兵不血刃。需，有孚，光。
Translation: If you press the retreating enemy such that there is no escape, they will lash out like a trapped dying animal. But if you let them run, they will exhaust themselves in the process. So when chasing retreating foes, don't follow too closely, let them exhaust their physical energy and fighting spirit. When they cease to function as a unit, you can capture them easily as individuals without even bloodying your weapons.

Explanation: Xu1 gua is made up of symbols for water and heaven. It implies rain/thunderstorm, therefore danger. Xu1 represent a scenario that, even if overall things are favorable to us, there is still danger involved, and overcoming that danger involves confidence. A lot of times, only when you have confidence can you be patient. If you can have patience, success can be yours.


Wuyizidi

[nianfong]

oh that's from the yi jing? sounds like sunzi bingfa where I remember several similar statements.

[kenneth fish]

I just read it cold - I would go with the other translations (I slapped my head and went "d'oh!" after reading the others - as in "oh yeah, shit, why didn't I see that" . Years of memorizing the 4 books and where do they go....)

[xuesheng]

I think it's supposed to be 欲擒故縱 (yu qin gu zong), which means that you intentionally let someone go when you want to capture them.

I think you're absolutely right. That makes much more sense.
Thanks to all of you who helped me out on this.
Best regards,
Steve

[xuesheng]

Anyone want a few more puzzles?
These aren't too difficult but I don't think I did such a great job trying to translate them in a succint, poetic way. What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your expert help!
反踢金驁 Reverse kick of golden steed or Golden steed kicks to the rear
回旋鋪錦 Circle back to adorn the ground
長虹弄影 Long rainbow's deceptive image
鋪地錦式 Adorning the earth posture

[Wuyizidi]

oh that's from the yi jing? sounds like sunzi bingfa where I remember several similar statements.

Sun Zi, Kong Zi, Lao Zi,... they were all influenced by Yi Jing. That's why Yi Jing is called Bai Jing Zhi Shou 百經之首 (head/source of all classics).

I once asked my teacher what's the real benefit of reading Yi Jing. He basically said "its teachings formed the foundations of traditional Chinese thought, permeating almost all aspects of culture. You may not immediately recognize those ideas as they were filtered through later thinkers like Kong Zi, Lao Zi, etc. People regarded Kong Zi's philosophy as a yang adaptation of Yi Jing ideas, and Daoism the more yin adaptation... Today you can still read it for its wisdom, and get a deeper understanding of our culture."

I resisted reading it for a long time, just like I really resisted studying Taiji Quan. I am constantly surprised by common ideas like 欲擒故從 which I thought came from somewhere else.


Wuyizidi

[xuesheng]

oh that's from the yi jing? sounds like sunzi bingfa where I remember several similar statements.

Sun Zi, Kong Zi, Lao Zi,... they were all influenced by Yi Jing. That's why Yi Jing is called Bai Jing Zhi Shou 百經之首 (head/source of all classics).

I once asked my teacher what's the real benefit of reading Yi Jing. He basically said "its teachings formed the foundations of traditional Chinese thought, permeating almost all aspects of culture. You may not immediately recognize those ideas as they were filtered through later thinkers like Kong Zi, Lao Zi, etc. People regarded Kong Zi's philosophy as a yang adaptation of Yi Jing ideas, and Daoism the more yin adaptation... Today you can still read it for its wisdom, and get a deeper understanding of our culture."

I resisted reading it for a long time, just like I really resisted studying Taiji Quan. I am constantly surprised by common ideas like 欲擒故從 which I thought came from somewhere else.


Wuyizidi

That's interesting. My teacher was talking about Yi Jing today. We were discussing meditation and Daoism and he said that the two most important books to read to understand Daoism and Chinese culture are Yi Jing first and Dao De Jing second (in order of importance, or I think that was his implication). He also emphasized the extreme difficulty in understanding and interpreting Yi Jing, especially for a non-native reader who may be depending on dictionaries or translations.

[edededed]

Wow - three Chinese experts all with the same opinion! (Sounds good to me...)

[nianfong]

hm I have an yi jing book that has explanations all over it. but I can't really decipher it. It's like one symbol, and then pages of explanation. I'll have to look through again to find the actual original text....

thanks for the inspiration wyzd

[xuesheng]

For English readers there are a number of ways to try and get into Yi Jing. Jou Tsun Hwa wrote a book called The Tao of I-Ching which is a good introduction, I think. I've heard differing opinions of his level of knowledge and mastery of Yi Jing but he certainly knew a hell of a lot more than I ever will, most likely...