Why thé death of master yang Cheng fu mysterious?

[Trick]

Practice taiji sword for actual combat or not, it is important to understand the thing(sword) holding in one’s hand so to handle it correctly. Still today many Chinese, from middle age and up anyway, know to handle sharp blades -‘ chop chop chop’ is frequently heard from many households when they put the cleavers at work cutting through flesh and bones.

Other of YCF’s indoor disciples practiced sword sparring, for example Li Yaxuan. I don’t think it’s unthinkable that YCF knew how to spar white a sword, and as they say - it’s an extension of the arm.
Wang Xiangzhai bested the Kendoka Kenichi Sawai and informed him of just that.

[edededed]

Who were the other 3 of the "4 good looking guys" in modern Chinese history? (I am guessing that Mao Zedong was not one of them...)

https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%B0%91% ... B7/5317935

汪精卫



张学良



周恩来



梅兰芳

Thank you - I did guess that perhaps Zhou Enlai was one of them!
As I think most of them trained martial arts (at least for part of their lives), certainly that was the reason for their good looks.... right?

Zhou Enlai: bagua/xingyi
Mei Lanfang: some people say bagua, some people say sanhuangpaochui; also sword
Zhang Xueliang: ? (but probably something since he was raised by his warlord father)
Wang Jingwei: not sure about him (maybe taiji from Chu Minyi?)

Too bad - in modern times they could have formed an idol group and made millions!

[origami_itto]

True, no one was learning jian to fight in the 20th century. Most people weren't learning tcc to fight in the 20th century.

The dao is for actually fighting, the jian is about training the yi and extending the qi.

[Bob]

Other of YCF’s indoor disciples practiced sword sparring, for example Li Yaxuan. I don’t think it’s unthinkable that YCF knew how to spar white a sword, and as they say - it’s an extension of the arm.

It raises an interesting question as from whom did Zheng Manqing learn his sword two person drills - I don't recall him discussing much about the how and when he learned his sword practice.

[Trick]

True, no one was learning jian to fight in the 20th century. Most people weren't learning tcc to fight in the 20th century.

The dao is for actually fighting, the jian is about training the yi and extending the qi.

Didnt you say you are into HEMA stuff ? - so, how about the ‘long sword’ ?

The Vikings swords, the Roman Gladius, and the more “modern” the Rapier,……….The Chinese Terracotta Army show double edged straight swords.

So combat value there is, or at least was…same with the Dao

[Trick]

Other of YCF’s indoor disciples practiced sword sparring, for example Li Yaxuan. I don’t think it’s unthinkable that YCF knew how to spar white a sword, and as they say - it’s an extension of the arm.

It raises an interesting question as from whom did Zheng Manqing learn his sword two person drills - I don't recall him discussing much about the how and when he learned his sword practice.

Probably from Li Yaxuan, they both resided in sichuan during the Japanese expansion in China

[Bao]

The dao is for actually fighting, the jian is about training the yi and extending the qi.

So the jian is not for actual use? Wow, that's probably the most bizarre thing I've ever read on this board.

[wayne hansen]

The 4 weapons all have their place
Pole
Spear
Knife
Sword
Each teaches a different energy and each increases the knowledge of the fist
Pole wood,spear fire ,knife metal ,sword water and fist earth
Unless you learn the 5 pieces of the puzzle are missing
CMC pointed this out

[Bob]

Sword equals "precision surgery" i.e. cutting the wrist among other locations although, historically, at times, it was also worn as ornamental/ceremonial piece within the court, with many having no level of skilled swordmanship.

Sword skill requires great sensitivity and subtle movements - wrist movements connected to subtle full body usage and expression - waist flexibility is critical.

Tiger, snake, dragon striking points heart area done with subtly of tajiquan but is found across many northern Chinese sword practices.

Also some historical sword blades were heavier and thicker than what we commonly see now

[origami_itto]

The dao is for actually fighting, the jian is about training the yi and extending the qi.

So the jian is not for actual use? Wow, that's probably the most bizarre thing I've ever read on this board.

Weapons are only relevant within a particular framework and context. The context where Taiji jian is relevant is very limited.

Fantasy fencing duels and larping, let's be honest.

Throughout history, single blade swords have reigned supreme. The curved shape is the most efficient for melee cutting, you can see that carrying over even into early firearms conflict.

In Rwanda, as in most other contemporary grassroots genocides, they grab machetes.

By Yang Cheng fus time, hell long before that, again, let's be honest, the jian was primarily a ceremonial implement, studied by scholars, not warriors. The story of the wudang jian form is about applying oneself to self cultivation in order to pass the civil exam (or otherwise noteworthy achievement), be of service, and die with all of your business handled.

Cheng man Ching did write about the weapons and Wayne has a YouTube video explaining so no need to get into the details, but suffice it to say that his theory placed a different emphasis on each of the weapons.

The jian is yi, they're all about extending qi.

The dao is about strength and aggression and attacking.

If anybody wants to prove me wrong go hang out with some HEMA folks and get some video.

[Steve James]

In (by) the 20th century, nobody was going to fight with a jian. It was already worn more as a ceremonial object by the 19th (by Confucius's time, actually). Though, I was taught that one clue was the curve of the guard. It showed whether the jian was for a warrior or a scholar. Anyway, Confucius said "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance."

If we're talking about usage, then the people who do it best are the ones who do it every day. If you haven't practiced a lot with a jian, you'd be better off with a dao. (I'm talking for myself ).

Imo, origami-itto is more correct in that daos were taken to war in the 20th century. The Japanese wore and used the katana, also a single edged weapon. How many Japanese soldiers were actually adept at using the katana is unclear. Japanese armies had been using firearms in the 1500s. In WW2 they primarily used their katanas after their ammunition ran out. It's also true that the panga/machete was commonly used by various factions in African conflicts (from Uganda/Rwanda to Sierra Leone).

[windwalker]

Many Tonbei Quan masters were involved in training the troops. My teacher talked to some of them during the 70’s and 80’s. According to those masters, the techniques they devised and taught to the general troops where no more than 10. In fact most of the time only one technique was used – a powerful upward sweep to knock (磕) the incoming bayonette away, and at the top, reverse course for a powerful cut (砍) downward toward the neck.

So effective were these simple weapons and techniques, the Japanese military actually devised a neck protector – a folding metal collar that is attached to the helmet. But it proved to be too weak for practical usage.

Since the da dao weighed 4-5 pounds, when swung, it has more than enough momentum to knock away a thrusting rifle bayonet. In Chinese martial art we say
“a 1 once weight when swung generate a 10 pound force”. Historians note that in European history, most single-handed weapons, like the axe, weighed only 3-5 pounds.

[Bao]

The context where Taiji jian is relevant is very limited.

You wrote "Jian", not "taiji Jian", I replied to what you wrote about the "Jian" ("The dao is for actually fighting, the jian is about training the yi and extending the qi."), let's keep to the subject.

Fantasy fencing duels and larping, let's be honest.

Throughout history, single blade swords have reigned supreme.

The Jian is called the "gentleman's" choice of weapon for a reason. It is a weapon not designed for the battlefield, but designed to be used in closed quarters, indoors, small and crowded areas. For a dao and similar you actually need some space, but with a Jian, you can have a lot of things around you and still be in control.

It definitely has its use, good use and its own advantages in the right context. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. I couldn't care less whatever. Just throwing out some genuine information so others won't be misguided by your ignorant BS.

[origami_itto]

It definitely has its use, good use and its own advantages in the right context. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. I couldn't care less whatever. Just throwing out some genuine information so others won't be misguided by your ignorant BS.

I don't get it. Show me.

I am ignorant. Educate me.

Take your straight sword and show me how you fight with it.

It's a long time since it's been relevant. Prove me wrong. Show me.

[wayne hansen]

The reason I started FMA was because I thought tai chi weapons many not be relavent
I trained with the best and that confirmed that the tai chi weapons had it all
Huang for one was a member of the big broadsword Batallion during WW2
Many of our teachers in Penang were Special forces fighting the Japanese in the jungles
Saying that I have never thought of tai chi being a melee type training
For that all you need is crude training
Tai chi weapons are there to teach your empty hand
Wood fire metal and water all transform earth
I try like Bao not to engage with Ito
You just have to watch what he shows to know he is still outside the door
If he had found a true teacher he would not try making himself out to be the expert
He would be too busy absorbing what he was being taught
Just because some have not had good training please don’t tell others it does not exist
I don’t fight Hema because I don’t see the point in bashing others in armour with dull weapons