kicking the shins

[Darth Rock&Roll]

the vid of the guy breaking his shin is a freak accident. i challenge you to find another one like it.

the chuo jiao guys are insane. however, i dont know why if you had that kind of incredible kicking skill youd be aiming for the shin instead of the knee cap, which is much more likely to be a crippling target.

there are actually a few examples of shin breaking kicks on youtube. It is a matter of angle and force, but it is not accidental. Maybe not planned, but there you have it. Straight plane of bone can be broken with force strikes as opposed to locks and bends.

here, you will find a crapload of shin and leg breaks with a few from kickboxing events:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query ... arch_type=

[johnwang]

Kicking the shin won't break the leg but kicking the knee may (the chance is still not very high unless you catch him while he is stepping in). The knee kick is a much better target. When you kick your opponent's shin, all he needs to do is to bend that leg at knee joint and your kick will pass through below his knee. The reason that you want to kick your opponent's knee is not trying to break his leg but to feel "where is leg is - build a leg bridge" so when you enter you will have some idea whether that leg will give you trouble or not. The knee kicking is the same as the leg bitting, 99% of the time your opponent's leg will move away and that's may be what what you want him to do.

[SitYodTong]

Shin breaks do happen in Muay Thai, but they are extremely rare in comparison to the number of fights. For instance, there are 50K+ professional Muay Thai fighters in Thailand alone--many of them fighting 2-3 times a month. Given the frequency of thier matches and the number of fighters, you would think this would be well-known in the sport as a common occurance. It is not. I have also watched a 1000+ MT and MMA fights live or on DVD/tape, at all levels from raw beginners to Lumpini Stadium championship matches. Never seen a shin break yet, with the exception of the posted videos.

In regards to "breaking the knee", this is not really possible anatomically unless you are talking about the kneecap itself, which is basically a lump of bone held in place by some very tough connective tissue. You can tear the ACL or MCL with a well-placed kick to the side of the knee, or you can stomp right above the kneecap, which will hyperextend the knee backwards.

As usual JW is correct. Also, the shin kick with the ball of the foot or the heel is also useful as a stop-kick--checking an oppnents forward momentum or an incoming kick. That requires a pretty good sense of timing to pull off under pressure.

[meeks]

Good for taking the mind, sensory overload, checking people's step, combining high and low in combination with uppercut etc... and I think could certainly stop the show with most people if powerful enough, though you wouldn't rely on it, of course.

Check out from about 3:30:

I don't say this often about stuff I see from mainland China, but I was impressed. The first bit didn't do much for me, then around minute 1:00 I was thinking "not bad at all.." at exactly minute 2:00 I was disillusioned again, only to be re-impressed around the 3:30 again.

[johnwang]

I was impressed.

I have always believed that everybody should have some training like this so their life can be depended on.

[chrislomas]

We train to kick straight up under the patella using the tip of th shoe, this method takes quite some practice to get accurate ad fast on a moving opponent but is highly effective and IMO worthwhile.

Three times in training guys have kicked a little too hard (which isn't hard at all as it requires very little force) and disloged the kneecap up the leg. Knowing how to reset the kneecap quickly is essential if practicing this method as if not replaced immediately it is difficult to reset and will cost a great deal of time and pain.

[middleway]

... i am with Yusuf on this ... as i have been on the receiving end of the shin kick methods he is describing ... you dont want to go anywhere near a guy good at this after one medium power kick ...

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I was impressed.

I have always believed that everybody should have some training like this so their life can be depended on.

This is good training. You don't see these kinds of skills trained often here with the exception of long time jong users.
In mma gyms, this type of conditioning training is nowhere to be found.

Bagwork and sparring is about the height of conditioning for striking in mma gyms that i have seen.

Inkungfu places though, I find a weird device or two now and then that are used for hardcore training.
the hard gongs always are good, but guidance is paramount to success.

[johnwang]

This is good training. You don't see these kinds of skills trained often here with the exception of long time jong users.
In mma gyms, this type of conditioning training is nowhere to be found.

The Gung development gradually disappears in TCMA and you will not find it in MMA training either. The outcome of this will be in the future we may see a lot of good fighters but we won't be able to see a lot of excellent fighters.

One example for this is the horse stance training. In our previous generation, we had seen people who can stay in horse stance to finish a dinner or to finish watching a Beijing opera show. In our generation, that kind of ability is nowhere to be heard. We'll be lucky to see someone who can stay in horse stance for 5 minutes.

No matter we like it or not, the Gung training will not be popular in our future generation. Because Gung training require time and in today's society, we just don't have the time.

I had a long discussion with David C. K, Lin on the phone about the counters for "outer leg twisting" last night. He said that there many be very few people who still train in "leg twisting" but he has not herad anyone who trains in "outer leg twisting". The value of finding counters againt that move will be useless. It's sad but I have to agree with him. Why should we train any counters that we may never be able to use for the rest of our life?

[Darth Rock&Roll]

well, i think it's important that if you feel it is important that you make the time.

I mean "you" in the most general of senses.

I agree, people shy away from the difficult parts and tend to lean towards that which they feel they can do easily.
It is like a plate of food, all of it is important to nourish you, but many of us don't like this part or that part.

If only a few of us preserve the methods, then that is enough.

I don't think proficiency in Martial arts is for everyone or for that matter, the development of attributes that refine you as a human being.

If everyone had it, there would be no such thing as kungfu.

there must be yin and yang or there will simply be degradation.

so...I agree.

[C.J.Wang]

Times are different now. A hundred years ago CMA was in many ways an important tool of survival and livelihood. People had the motivation, time, envrionment, and need to spend hours a day perfecting their Gung-Li training.

Being able to stand in a horse stance for an hour is not going to get you a job or feed your family in today's society.

[johnwang]

Even in the ancient time, only the rich can afford to train hard. The difference is today even the rich don't want to train hard.

[Ron Panunto]

Even in the ancient time, only the rich can afford to train hard. The difference is today even the rich don't want to train hard.

If you're already rich, why would you want to, or need to, train hard?

[C.J.Wang]

While it's true that many famous masters were born poor and practiced MA to get ahead in life, there were others who were rich too - rich enough to seek out top masters for instruction.

My grand teacher's father was a landowner who paid Gao Yi-Sheng 30 taels of silver a month plus free room and board just so he and his son could learn Bagua.

[middleway]

i guess in those times being rich didnt in the slightest way mean being 'safe'.

The rich people would be in more danger than the poor people with nothing ... bandits, muggers etc would have all targeted the richer people ...

having some bad ass gong fu to back up your wallet was probably advisable!