edededed wrote:He is trying to use Western words to explain Chinese concepts, so it sounds a bit confusing, unless perhaps one is already familiar with the ideas.
His background is Wu taiji, so...
- Yes, some people think it looks like robot taiji (I did too, before).
- The isolation of the waist from the lower body is a Wu style trait (as HotSoup alluded to, most other neijia don't do this)
HotSoup wrote:Stephen Hwa posted this video with his signature spiraling method: https://youtu.be/m2xJZ40xSZQ and made me curious whether other forum members find it resembling their own approach to spiraling/winding.
I was taught to do it in a similar manner, except that the legs should also twist (kua should work together with dantian), instead of being just the rigid foundation Mr Hwa is referring to.
What’s your experience with such mechanics?
windwalker wrote:HotSoup wrote:Stephen Hwa posted this video with his signature spiraling method: https://youtu.be/m2xJZ40xSZQ and made me curious whether other forum members find it resembling their own approach to spiraling/winding.
I was taught to do it in a similar manner, except that the legs should also twist (kua should work together with dantian), instead of being just the rigid foundation Mr Hwa is referring to.
What’s your experience with such mechanics?
seems quite similar to this,,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ILJ-PmEiVc
cloudz wrote:windwalker wrote:HotSoup wrote:Stephen Hwa posted this video with his signature spiraling method: https://youtu.be/m2xJZ40xSZQ and made me curious whether other forum members find it resembling their own approach to spiraling/winding.
I was taught to do it in a similar manner, except that the legs should also twist (kua should work together with dantian), instead of being just the rigid foundation Mr Hwa is referring to.
What’s your experience with such mechanics?
seems quite similar to this,,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ILJ-PmEiVc
What's the matter David, can't you just answer his question directly.
Ma is using his whole body in the very first move - is that your answer then?
whether you start out teaching people in a robotic manner. To stay there or keep it there is a disservice.
It's a stepping stone, no more.
tai chi shouldn't be robotic or square - someone tell me I'm wrong please.
Since when did beginner style become the way..
cloudz wrote:I've seen plenty of Wu style sir, as well as practiced it, and none of it has looked as robotic as this guy does.
shall we start posting examples - I'm pretty sure I'll out post you by 10 to 1 on the wu style plus minus robot scale.
suckinlhbf wrote:Saw a post that somebody may find it interesting.
Blogging about Classical Tai Chi in California and Buffalo, NY
Monday, July 6, 2009
Turn at Waist vs. Turn at Hip
TURN AT WAIST and/vs. TURN AT HIP
Discipleship Ceremony 1986
Wu Hsia Fung with Jim Roach .and Wu Kwong Yu(Eddie)
(I am no longer a disciple, but I treasure this photo...no gray hair)
"When you teach or demonstrate the internal move "turning at the waist" in Classical Tai Chi, you likely will encounter questions "why not using Kua/hip." Most external martial arts and large tai chi schools practice Kua or hip for that turning motion.
One example of such discussion could is at "Rum Soaked Fist."
Jim Roach, our first certified instructor, spent his early years of martial art training using "turn with Kua/hip," then switched over to learn Classical Tai chi using "turn at the waist." He has good insight into the discussions in the above link. Here are his comments regarding such discussion." Master Stephen Hwa
Jim Roach on Turning at the waist vs. turning using Kua/Hip
It is said nowadays in Wu Style that one cannot develop any power (to do such things as punch) from turning at the waist, that one must "use the hips." Wu's Style
Another Wu Style says one must "turn the body around the waist not using the hips." Wu Style
That commentary says one will lose their balance if they turn in those postures from the hip.
See Ma Jiangbao as quoted on Cook Ding's Kitchen: Cook Ding's Kitchen: An Interview with Ma Jiang Bao (cookdingskitchen.blogspot.com) Martin Boedicker (wixsite.com)
Anatomically, the hips and waist are different, but one could certainly turn the waist without turning the hips, but the reverse is not possible. "Distinguishing the Hip and Waist"
This student studied both sides of that question with the Wu Family, then with Master Stephen Hwa.
Not stated is how the frame size has such bearing on whether injudicious, called "overturning" hip causes feet to move to upset the balance. Also, one can indeed turn such amounts of the hip in a more prominent stance. What is also not mentioned is that the legs play a significant role in such movement. One leg is pushed down at the ground, resulting in the body moving into the other leg. However, in the small frame of Classical Tai Chi, one leg is used to pull the body into the other leg.
Left unsaid is proper "timing" use of the hips. For instance, one can turn the waist, THEN turn the hips in a follow-up movement. Another example is that the hips always turn by default when one does such movements where "hands follow the feet, elbow follow the knee."
Proper use of hips in coordination with the waist as shown in the cooperative push hands (although push hands are not in this clip, one can certainly see the up-close "fa jing" power, and it is minus ANY hip turning...is it not?) training of Tao of Martial Applications DVD. Turning the hips is not eschewed. It just means with the right timing.
For example, one could offset an opponent's balance in a close-up confrontation using internal discipline (internal movement), then a giant step (stance) could be taken whereby the opponent is thrown to the ground using the motion of the hips in the process (external movement). The motions of the "repulse Monkey" section of the form come to mind as an example "Repulse Monkey."
Jim Roach
Posted by Jim Roach Classical Tai Chi of Buffalo at 10:27 AM
Labels: hips, timing, Waist, wu's style
1 comment:
Rick Matz said...
Excellent post! Thanks for all of those links. I'll be studying this post for quite some time.
June 23, 2009 at 10:00 PM
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