"...the movements of what is taught today in Chen Tai Chi as silk-reeling exercises is identical to what is taught as Chanyuangong 禅圆功 in Shaolin arts. Mostly, this exercise is connected to “softer” or more internal Shaolin arts, as Rouquan (Soft fist/boxing). Sal Canzonieri, who has studied the links between Shaolin arts and Chen Tai Chi Chuan kindly showed me the simple movements, or drills, of Chanyuangong. All of them are remarkable close to Tai Chi Chuan movements and Chen silk reeling drills. In my own opinion, it’s absolutely clear that these much earlier developed drills have a very strong connection to both silk-reeling exercises and Tai Chi practice in general. (For more information about the relationships between Shaolin arts and Tai Chi Chuan, read Mr. Canzonieri’s articles or take a look at his book: The Hidden History of the Chinese Internal Martial Arts )"
jbb73 wrote:One theory is, that the origin of the silk reeling i. e. winding goes back to the use of the spear, what makes at least some sense to me.
This kind of progress is rooted in one word, “practice.” Gu Liuxin said, “Master Chen continued to practice thirty routines a day during the dozens of years he was in Beijing.'’ Though I did not hear about this directly from my master, I personally observed that every time he moved to a new residence, there would be several lines of broken bricks on the floor in a short while. Even when sitting, he would cross his hands and rotate them. He told me to do the same. At the time, I did not understand what this was supposed to achieve. Later on, I realized that this practice was used to be aware of the silk reeling.
Q. Chen Taijiquan has evolved over the course of many generations with significant changes at certain times. A few examples that immediately spring to mind are Chen Changxin’s development of the Laojia routines and later Chen Fake’s creation of the New Frame. And of course, like any human pursuit there are bound to be changes in training methods etc in line with the realisation of different individuals. In recent times we have seen the introduction of practice methods such as silk exercises and short forms. Can you tell us something about how this has come about?
Chen Xiaowang (CXW): In the past Laojia was the jibengong (basic training) of Chen Taijiquan and everything started with Laojia Yilu. [As part of an official programme documenting China’s different martial arts] I was asked to present a set of jibengong (basic exercises) characteristic of the system. At first I didn’t want to do it, and explained we already have a jibengong and that is the Laojia. Despite my protests I was tasked to do it by my superiors. In the context of their project [which involved producing books about each of the different martial systems] they said that the Laojia was too long to be considered as a basic training method. They gave the example of Changquan (Long Boxing) where learners first learn the stretches, the punches, the kicks etc... before they put them together into a routine. That gave me something to work on but it still took some effort, but having a point of reference helped.
I put some thought into it and set about compiling something. It occurred to me then that I needed to work out how best to show the movement rules and principles of our system. In 1980 the set was compiled and in 1982 it was published in Wulin magazine. I don’t think that it would be easy to find a copy of the magazine now. In 1984 [the reeling silk exercises] were officially published as Chen Taijiquan’s jibengong in the book Taijiquan Handed Down Through Generations published by People’s Sport Publications. This was the first time that zhan zhuang, front reeling silk, side reeling silk etc.. were formally recorded.
GrahamB wrote:None of this quite makes sense. There's CXW saying he invented the exercises in 1980s, but there's one in a book by Shen JiaZhen Gu LiuXin from 1963. Robert says there's one in Chen Xin's book, which is much earlier.
Maybe CXW is talking about his silk reeling exercises, as opposed to the whole idea of silk reeling exercises.
And obviously, the concept of silk reeling being in the form is even older.
[As part of an official programme documenting China’s different martial arts] I was asked to present a set of jibengong (basic exercises) characteristic of the system. At first I didn’t want to do it, and explained we already have a jibengong and that is the Laojia. Despite my protests I was tasked to do it by my superiors. In the context of their project [which involved producing books about each of the different martial systems] they said that the Laojia was too long to be considered as a basic training method. They gave the example of Changquan (Long Boxing) where learners first learn the stretches, the punches, the kicks etc... before they put them together into a routine. That gave me something to work on but it still took some effort, but having a point of reference helped.
[As part of an official programme documenting China’s different martial arts] I was asked to present a set of jibengong (basic exercises) characteristic of the system. At first I didn’t want to do it, and explained we already have a jibengong and that is the Laojia. Despite my protests I was tasked to do it by my superiors
Steve James wrote:Obviously When, in fact, did that start? Was Chen village near to or connected with the silk industry? It stands to reason, imo, that silk reelers invented/developed it. Whoever didn't do it didn't invent it.
I know. It's not helpful; it's just a direction for research.
"In medieval China this ancient Indian dhyāna-master, transmitter of the Dharma-treasury, and author of the seminal Awakening of Faith (Dasheng qixin lun 大乘起信論), was also represented as an immanent deity who specialized in rituals for
promoting silk production."
wayne hansen wrote:Just another version of the Tien Gan
I have a set from the Wu style that I do that is very similar
Also the Yang noi gung
Mrwawa wrote:This is why I posted my original question. I have seen it referenced on multiply occasions that CXW created, invented, or standardized the Chen style silk reeling exercises. This just doesn't seem very plausible, as FZQ has them as well and they are essentially the same as the Chen Village set, imo.
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