the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

ah you are on a roll, Quigga!

singing sounds like a much better analogy to me as a person who does not "get it" for singing. it might as well be the "disney magic" as I don't "have it", and it doesn't matter if Pavarotti had been my teacher. I still couldn't get it.

for the learning stuff, great character list. I guess I was talking more about "habits" and "practices" as well as understanding the "biology" that informs those things that help anybody to learn better. excerpt from a short list someone on reddit made from the Coursera course:

Summary of what I learnt:

There are two modes of thinking:

Focused mode: Concentrating on things that are usually familiar.

Diffused mode: A relaxed mode of thinking "your thoughts are free to wander".

When you don’t desire doing/learning something, go through it and just start. The discomfort goes away and, in the long term, this will lead to satisfaction.

When you learn something new, make sure to take time to rest, then come back to it and recall what you learnt.

This is very important. Don’t cram information in one day. This leads to inefficient learning. It’s like building a wall without letting it dry.

Revisiting and practicing what you learn is important. Research shows that spaced repetition (repeating things after few days) is the best way to build and strengthen the synaptic connections.

Sleep is very important. It clears the metabolic toxins from the brain after a day of "brain use". It is best to sleep directly after learning new things.

It was shown that exercising and/or being in a rich social environment helps your brain produce new neurons. Don’t lock yourself in your room. Stay active and spare time for exercise (including general physical activities) and friends daily.

Most popular research on learning has to do with declarative learning-- i.e. the accumulation of information that can be repeated on demand. There are different types of learning, though-- I generally think of it in terms of declarative, procedural, and motor learning, but other people make other distinctions. There are areas of overlap, even to the point of being unclear where one type of learning becomes another, but they are not the same. When you start including things like attention, brain structure, and hormonal states, things get a lot more complicated. By their very natures, science and research fall far short of accurately representing the reality of lived experiences. That's actually the strength of the methods, but it's important not to lose sight of the forest for the anatomy of a leaf. I love the science and the nerdy stuff, and have benefitted greatly from it, but it should follow, rather than precede, experience.

Earlier I mentioned and posted references to Chen Fake’s Jibengong, some of the more basic exercises. Included in that jibengong is circle training.

I found these videos today of my senior brother, Ronnie Yee, teaching both positive and negative circles. I thought I would post them for reference.

Positive circle


Negative circle


The OP was curious about the origins of Silk Reeling Qigong, a term I've only heard in association with Zhang Xue Xin’s version of Feng Zhiqiang’s Silk Reeling Exercises. It was also mentioned that Chen Xiaowang created his own set of Silk Reeling Exercises.

Silk Reeling Exercises is not term recorded in any Chen writings or writings by Chen students before 1970. However, Chen Xin writes about Chansijin (Silk reeling force or energy) as early as 1909.

Chen Fake was teaching his jibengong as he taught Hong Junsheng’s cohort in 1930. I find it more likely that Chen Fa-ke brought the jibengong training with him from Chen Village rather than inventing it upon arrival in Beijing. Further, I have been told, but I have not seen that the Xiaojia Branch of Chen Taijiquan has similar jibengong and circle exercises.

So. jibengong that develops the core movements of Chen Taijiquan, which, in turn, create chansijin likely go back to before there are records of training practices within the Chen family.

twocircles13 wrote:

So. jibengong that develops the core movements of Chen Taijiquan, which, in turn, create chansijin likely go back to before there are records of training practices within the Chen family.

What leads back to the second post in this thread at page 1, to cite myself:
"You shouldn't confuse the isolated silk reeling exercises of CXW systematized in the late 80s/early 90s with silk reeling practice in Chen Taijiquan in general."

Not just the Chen style
It is in every part of each tai chi system as well as hsing I and Ba kua
It is just more overt in the Chen style forms and twisting of silk exercises

wayne hansen wrote:Not just the Chen style
It is in every part of each tai chi system as well as hsing I and Ba kua

Exactly.

What Chen Xin meant by silk reeling was a general principle of body movement found in all internal arts, not something only in Tai Chi or in Chen style.

It is just more overt in the Chen style forms and twisting of silk exercises

Silk reeling exercises are found in many arts, they just don't call them "silk reeling exercises". Why coiling whole body coordination and movement is more overt or emphasized in Chen style compared to other tai chi styles might have much to do with branding. It is said that Chen Fake "put the mechanics on the outside". This might have something to do with differentiating his art more from YCF's style which was already well known in Beijing when CFK arrived the capital and "took over".

Yes I learnt them in
Yang
Wu
Hsing I
Ba kua
FMA

Thanks

Just to be clear, I was claiming that the videos and the training they demonstrate were from Chen Taijiquan and that training in this manner goes back at least 100 years and most likely much further within the Chen family.

It should not be implied that I was claiming any kind of uniqueness or origin to this manner of training. I had a teacher who was fond of quoting the saying, “Northern Chinese martial arts are all sons of the same mother.” So, I expect commonalities between Chinese martial arts and never assume that anything is unique and very rarely original.