Systema and Tai Chi – similarities and differences

[RobP3]

Thanks, that's a very interesting post. I saw very little of ITT's work, and all of that at second hand, via the lens of John Ding. Sounds like he was a good teacher, shame I never got the opportunity to train with him.
cheers

[Fubo]

Sure thing. Yes, he was a good and honest teacher. I'm sure you would have enjoyed meeting and training with him at the time.
Cheers.

[cloudz]

I just want to add a note to the Hopping part.

I got into a few discussion on Mike Yuens group and did a little of his "Ji power training" from Gin Soon and YSC.

The keeping of the structure is a deliberate part used to develop structural connection and the power of the Triangular Force of Ji. It also acts as a defensive aspect where you retreat from greater force: think the way a cat jumps back maintaining structure.
Of course the whole "dancing Qi" parts from that school ARE ridiculous and odd and Mike certainly gave me the impression that was something that changed and developed later at the Gin Soon school after the type of people coming in changed a little and were less inclined for bitter training. In the early days it wasn't there. The Ji pushing can be done against a wall solo for example. Or two person. But it is really only a conditioning exercise. So the people doing it need to know that if they hop further than once or once and catch their footing, they are doing it of their own accord; as well as the first one of course. Yes relaxing dissipates but neither party gets to train this exercise as per what it is meant to develop. Which is firstly structure and force of a specific kind.Mike is adamant this is the "Secret Sauce" of the famed Yang family power..
As well as the Ji being used in the posture holding and the idea permeates or is a foundation for everything else.
Just thought I would throw that in on that training, seeing as it is included in this clip.
I don't think it's really related to energy work or empty force/ no touch at all personally.
The best example of this kind of training for me is by Jim Uglow in the UK, there is quite a good clip online of him and one of his guys on youtube doing it.
You trained with him a fair bit I believe Rob. No hopping, Was the hopping part of Vincents stuff ?
Whilst in two person I have done it holding structure and letting it move me - before this training. I have never Hopped.
Both parties were aware it was a training exercise and no more than that.. I viewed it as a fa jin type exercise at the time, but that's changed a bit since.

From what I've seen and heard I'm not a fan of Mike, but YMMV. Interesting that he says the dancing was a later development. I trained in the dynamic pushing extensively, with the GSC people and others. It builds some things but I totally discarded it later on. Maybe part of the reason is, IME, there was never any function attached to anything - form, DPH, etc.
So is this the Yang "secret?" The ability to push people out from a firm stance? It might explain a lot in relation to how challenges were done at a certain place and time. Outside of that... I don't know
Yes I trained with Jim, I believe he is now studying under Mary Yang. No hopping. And there is footage of me doing DPH with Vincent Chu - no hopping.

I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of his. He did share some interesting information and I learnt things that tied in with my own understanding regards the Ji pushing. I took some of his course but not much, more our of curiosity than anything else. He seems like a nice enough guy. I can't really comment on other things. It's really just power and structure development and acts as a foundation for everything else. At least that's the way I've come to see the Yang family system. Of course there's lots more to it.